Nextgen CPUs

[joxer]

This still works. Erm… Worked a few weeks back to be precise, I upgraded friend's PC:
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/microsoft-windows-10-free-upgrade-offer-assistive-features/

No lying though, he has myopia -7 or something and does use magnifying glass on pics. But Microsoft won't ask you for diagnoses or something, just say yes.
My eyesight also got blurry. Who's isn't?

One more thing. Even if Microsoft cancels that possibility, apparently you can still do it with classic way:
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/yo...ows-10-for-free-with-media-creation-tool.html
I didn't try that though.

 

[wolfgrimdark]

So this has been a great discussion. Not being a big hardware person (mostly a newb) I have been doing a lot of research on Ryzen. From what I gather its still too new and has mixed results at this point.

It is of interest to me since it is time to get a new PC. From the sounds of it Intel Kaby Lake is a good gaming CPU since it seems most games can't really take advantage of multi-threading. At least that seems to the be message I am getting at various forums and tech sites.

While I may wait this is a tentative build at the moment going with a kaby lake overclocked CPU.

Most likely with windows 7 as I have regretted moving to windows 10 (from a gaming perspective not a work one) ever since I did it. Also seems Ryzen was doing a bit better on benchmarks on win7 vs. win10 from what some reported.

Spoiler

Specifications:

Chassis Model: Hailstorm II Edition Exterior Finish

Processor: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2 GHz (Codename Kaby Lake) (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core)

Motherboard: ASUS ROG Maximus IX Formula (Intel Z270 Chipset) (Up to 5x PCI-E Devices)

System Memory: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz Digital Storm Performance Series

Power Supply: 1200W Corsair AX1200i (Digitally Controlled Power)

Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) (Internal)

Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (500GB Samsung 960 EVO) (NVM Express)

Storage Set 2: 1x Storage (3TB Seagate / Toshiba)

Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)

Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce GTX 1080 8GB (Performance Edition) (VR Ready)

Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Z

Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Corsair H115i - 280mm Liquid CPU Cooler (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance)

Chassis Fans: Corsair Airflow Performance Edition Fans

Software Chassis Mods: Fan Blow-Holes: CPU & Graphics Card Area: Laser Cut and Mount (2x) Side Window Fans

Boost Processor: Stage 3: Overclock CPU - Up to 5.0GHz (Depends on Cooling and Motherboard)

Boost Graphics Card(s): Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability

Boost OS: Yes, Disable and tweak all of the non-crucial services on the operating system

Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-Bit Edition)

Keyboard: CM Storm Devastator II Bundle (Blue LED Edition) (Gaming Keyboard & Gaming Mouse)

Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)

 

[joxer]

It is of interest to me since it is time to get a new PC.
...

Spoiler

Specifications:

Chassis Model: Hailstorm II Edition Exterior Finish

Processor: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2 GHz (Codename Kaby Lake) (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core)

Motherboard: ASUS ROG Maximus IX Formula (Intel Z270 Chipset) (Up to 5x PCI-E Devices)

System Memory: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz Digital Storm Performance Series

Power Supply: 1200W Corsair AX1200i (Digitally Controlled Power)

Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) (Internal)

Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (500GB Samsung 960 EVO) (NVM Express)

Storage Set 2: 1x Storage (3TB Seagate / Toshiba)

Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)

Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce GTX 1080 8GB (Performance Edition) (VR Ready)

Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Z

Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Corsair H115i - 280mm Liquid CPU Cooler (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance)

Chassis Fans: Corsair Airflow Performance Edition Fans

Software Chassis Mods: Fan Blow-Holes: CPU & Graphics Card Area: Laser Cut and Mount (2x) Side Window Fans

Boost Processor: Stage 3: Overclock CPU - Up to 5.0GHz (Depends on Cooling and Motherboard)

Boost Graphics Card(s): Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability

Boost OS: Yes, Disable and tweak all of the non-crucial services on the operating system

Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-Bit Edition)

Keyboard: CM Storm Devastator II Bundle (Blue LED Edition) (Gaming Keyboard & Gaming Mouse)

Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)

eh? Why would you upgrade that?

 

[sakichop]

So this has been a great discussion. Not being a big hardware person (mostly a newb) I have been doing a lot of research on Ryzen. From what I gather its still too new and has mixed results at this point.

It is of interest to me since it is time to get a new PC. From the sounds of it Intel Kaby Lake is a good gaming CPU since it seems most games can't really take advantage of multi-threading. At least that seems to the be message I am getting at various forums and tech sites.

While I may wait this is a tentative build at the moment going with a kaby lake overclocked CPU.

Most likely with windows 7 as I have regretted moving to windows 10 (from a gaming perspective not a work one) ever since I did it. Also seems Ryzen was doing a bit better on benchmarks on win7 vs. win10 from what some reported.

Spoiler

Specifications:

Chassis Model: Hailstorm II Edition Exterior Finish

Processor: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2 GHz (Codename Kaby Lake) (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core)

Motherboard: ASUS ROG Maximus IX Formula (Intel Z270 Chipset) (Up to 5x PCI-E Devices)

System Memory: 64GB DDR4 3000MHz Digital Storm Performance Series

Power Supply: 1200W Corsair AX1200i (Digitally Controlled Power)

Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) (Internal)

Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (500GB Samsung 960 EVO) (NVM Express)

Storage Set 2: 1x Storage (3TB Seagate / Toshiba)

Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)

Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce GTX 1080 8GB (Performance Edition) (VR Ready)

Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Z

Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Corsair H115i - 280mm Liquid CPU Cooler (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance)

Chassis Fans: Corsair Airflow Performance Edition Fans

Software Chassis Mods: Fan Blow-Holes: CPU & Graphics Card Area: Laser Cut and Mount (2x) Side Window Fans

Boost Processor: Stage 3: Overclock CPU - Up to 5.0GHz (Depends on Cooling and Motherboard)

Boost Graphics Card(s): Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability

Boost OS: Yes, Disable and tweak all of the non-crucial services on the operating system

Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-Bit Edition)

Keyboard: CM Storm Devastator II Bundle (Blue LED Edition) (Gaming Keyboard & Gaming Mouse)

Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)

Nice build, if your strickly gaming 64 GB ram would be overkill, also not sure what the price difference will be when they release but I'd go 1080ti over the 1080.

 

[joxer]

Wait he's upgrading to that, not from that?
It's definetly an overkill. Just don't (make me sell my house to bribe visa authorities buy a plane ticket and travel there to slap you around till you drop i7 from plans).

 

[wolfgrimdark]

Nice build, if your strickly gaming 64 GB ram would be overkill, also not sure what the price difference will be when they release but I'd go 1080ti over the 1080.

Thanks - aye I plan on dropping to 32. A few folks have mentioned to go with the 1080ti as well. It isn't much more so adjusted my build.

 

[you]

I don't even understand the need for 32GB; 16GB is plenty and likely will be for the life of the computer. Also the 1080ti is overkill unless you are doing 4K gaming. The argument of buying the best today in case you do something tomorrow is very poor when it comes to technlolgy because tomorrow everything will be faster and cheaper. While this is less true for processors (the faster part); video will definitely be faster and cheaper tomorrow and it is not that hard to upgrade the video card. Also the standard keeps changing at a rapid pace (standard here refers to interfaces and specifiication). What i am talking about is connectors and hdr (bits per pixel). The reason the connectors keep changing is that higher resolution displays require more bw and the connectors are not leaving enough head-room for advancement in technology. Anyway that is my 2ct.

Thanks - aye I plan on dropping to 32. A few folks have mentioned to go with the 1080ti as well. It isn't much more so adjusted my build.

 

[azarhal]

It is of interest to me since it is time to get a new PC. From the sounds of it Intel Kaby Lake is a good gaming CPU since it seems most games can't really take advantage of multi-threading. At least that seems to the be message I am getting at various forums and tech sites.

That's because they use old games in benchmark (some going back to pre-2011 even) to display single threading performance. The majority of the games from the last few years favor more cores over higher clock and that won't change.

Everything point to Window 10 thread scheduler having an issue with Ryzen's architecture, it can't see the difference between physicals cores and SMT which results in cache fault when it moves threads around to much. Windows 7 scheduler works differently so that issue isn't seen on it. Hopefully, Microsoft is fixing that thing fast.

 

[joxer]

Till SMT issue is patched in windows10 we'll see things like these:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/page-8#post-38775732

I did some 3D testing and eventhou there is not nearly enough data to confirm it, I'd say the SMT regression is infact a Windows 10 related issue.
In 3D testing I did recently on Windows 10, the title which illustrated the biggest SMT regression was Total War: Warhammer.

All of these were recorded at 3.5GHz, 2133MHz MEMCLK with R9 Nano:

Windows 10 - 1080 Ultra DX11:

8C/16T - 49.39fps (Min), 72.36fps (Avg)
8C/8T - 57.16fps (Min), 72.46fps (Avg)

Windows 7 - 1080 Ultra DX11:

8C/16T - 62.33fps (Min), 78.18fps (Avg)
8C/8T - 62.00fps (Min), 73.22fps (Avg)

 

[wolfgrimdark]

Thanks for the tips all, appreciate it. I read the same things about Ryzen in my current research (like what Joxer and Azarhal pointed out). I like the idea of using Ryzen but will need to see where things go.

In the mean time I adjusted and will most likely get 32GB DDR4 3200MHz Corsair Dominator Platinum DHX. I do some graphic rendering and while 16GB is probably enough I don't mind having the extra buffer. But I may drop as low as 16GB to gain some money I can put elsewhere.

The GeForce GTX 1080ti was only an extra $140 and I want the flexibility for doing some 4K screenshot work.

I did read some things that the new Kaby Lake generation (the 2017 release) has problems with drivers and windows 7 - two people warned me about that on another forum. Which means if I go with that I would need to stick with windows 10. So still looking around. I want the best CPU you can get for gaming right now.

EDIT: Article of interest on the newest Kaby Lake - is the desk top CPU dead? I am rooting for Ryzen myself.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/intel-core-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-review/

Also found out a little more on the Kaby Lake CPU and Windows 7 issue:

the issue is only relevant if you are using the CPU integrated GPU - as the Driver for the Graphics Chipsets within the Kaby Lake's isn't officially supported by win7 - there is an inofficial patch by many motherboard devs that basically is a beta from late august 2016 that acts as if the win7 install is a win server install that does support it .. though I assume that the issue becomes redundant with a dedicated GPU ...

 

[lostforever]

this is very disappointing to me....

I can't believe AMD themselves didn't bother to run these test themselves? This is make or break for them and you would think they would have worked with their key partners to test this crap?

 

[Gorath]

So still looking around. I want the best CPU you can get for gaming right now.

Why? Are you sure you are playing CPU-limited games? 90-95% of all modern games are GPU-limited. In that case your CPU doesn't matter as long as it is "fast enough".

If you're thinking about Ryzen, I would suggest to give the platform another 3 months to mature. Stability will come and the most dramatic driver related issues will be solved, at least under Win10.

 

[you]

Not to be an idiot but what is SMT ?

 

[azarhal]

this is very disappointing to me….

I can't believe AMD themselves didn't bother to run these test themselves? This is make or break for them and you would think they would have worked with their key partners to test this crap?

They knew, they told the reviewers to disable SMT for the game benchmarks (which gives a 10-20% boost under Windows 10). It's for Microsoft to fix Windows 10 scheduler, there isn't much AMD can do outside that recommendation.

The motherboard issues seems to be dependent if the reviewers bothered doing their firmware updates or not. For example, Computerbase.de had pretty good results with the Asus Crosshair Hero IV while the worst results are also on that motherboard.

Not to be an idiot but what is SMT ?

SMT. It's a feature that allow multiple threads on a core to be run at the same time.

 

[joxer]

Why? Are you sure you are playing CPU-limited games? 90-95% of all modern games are GPU-limited. In that case your CPU doesn't matter as long as it is "fast enough".

I'd say 99%. The 1% of CPU limited games are horrible ports from other platforms, I wasn't joking about Watch Dogs 2 being atrocious code (didn't buy it), but even if we'll forget that one, we all remember Batman Arkham Knight release.
In these cases where the port was halfarsed milking job not even the strongest CPU will help.

wolfg's target however is 4K resolution. Dunno why nor will ask, you all know my obsession is 1080/1440p with as much FPS as possible as I don't play just adventures but also competitive games. For 4K case 1080ti feels like a must. Is i7 a must here too? I don't think so, but I can't be sure. It's a rainforest of opinions I'm not going to explore till the moment 4K becomes PC games standard. And by that time we'll see a couple of more new CPU generations.

About AMD, I believe the first batch they released were (are) not supposed to be gaming chips. So they didn't focus on performance in games but in professional software.
By the time R5 hits the market, series obviously aimed at gaming, they'll polish whatever problems were shown in R7 tests. Most definetly.

 

[wolfgrimdark]

Actually I play on 2560 x 1440. I don't have any desire to do 4K. But what I do want is to be able to maximize visual quality settings, in addition to use post-processing tools like ReShade and/or ENB, and have a playable frame rate … while also knowing the PC will last 2-3 years. At my age I don't mind some over-kill as playing games is my hobby and I like having a powerful computer - not counting my dogs and things crucial to survival (the bills) its the only thing I splurge on in life. That being said I have no desire to just buy something totally unnecessary but from what I have been reading certain games I like need a strong CPU to go with the GPU. But that I don't need a lot of cores so settled for the quad core.

I have refined my build somewhat and have a pretty nice one now. Just debating if I order it or wait No huge rush and could wait till fall to see what develops. A lot will depend on my mood.

 

[joxer]

IMO you should wait. No reason to go with 4 cores if upcoming hexacore Ryzen proves as a better choice. By the time it's released, hopefully these "childhood diseases" first batch of new AMD CPUs have will be fixed.

 

[joxer]

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-performance-negatively-affected-windows-10-scheduler-bug/

A newly discovered bug in Windows 10’s scheduler has been found to be negatively affecting performance of AMD Ryzen CPUs. The bug has been confirmed to affect all Windows 10 versions but not Windows 7.
...
It also incorrectly identifies the amount of cache available per thread. Adding up the amount of L2 and L3 cache Windows 10’s scheduler “thinks” is there totals to an insane 136MB of cache, when Ryzen 7 in fact only has 20MB of L2+L3 cache combined.
…
The good news is that Windows 7 does not exhibit the same issue and motherboard makers have thankfully released Windows 7 drivers for their AM4 motherboards. So if users choose to go this route they should have some comfort in knowing that Windows 7 is bug free and is officially supported by the board makers.

Aka, if you've bought Ryzen CPU already, do stick with windows7 till Microsoft fixes this nasty bug.

 

[Caddy]

The most positive thing to come from Ryzen, is that consumers have a choice. And choice always means competition, which means increasing quality/features, etc while dropping the price. In other words, the next few months down the road, it will be a good time for those looking to get a new CPU, be it Intel or AMD.

The geek in me thrives on all this Ryzen info, but in the end i'm still completely satisfied with my years old FX-8320E. Yes it's an 8-core, but it's the budget version (you can pick it up for $99 if you look), and even with Intel being much better per-core performance, i'm still doing 60 FPS in Witcher 3 @ 2560 x 1080.

So really, the excitement is that 5 years from now when I upgrade, i'll be able to pick up an ultra cheap CPU with a bajillion cores for the price of a potato.

In fact, i'm downsizing since i've found myself moving a lot. I went from a tower to a nice portable Micro ATX:

 

[azarhal]

The geek in me thrives on all this Ryzen info, but in the end i'm still completely satisfied with my years old FX-8320E. Yes it's an 8-core, but it's the budget version (you can pick it up for $99 if you look), and even with Intel being much better per-core performance, i'm still doing 60 FPS in Witcher 3 @ 2560 x 1080.

At what setting and GPU? Because my FX-8350 hang around 45 FPS at 1950x1080 on "High" (lots of stuff disabled).