Kingmaker Pathfinder Kingmaker release thread

[Maylander]

A world that really moves on while you experience the story in that world is certainly a nice goal to look forward to.

But honestly, I think you need a game master to do that in an enjoyable way. Or an AI that is capable of replacing that game master. I think the Sui Generis kickstarter was partly suggesting to go into that direction. Too early.

Maybe in 20 years.

Yeah, I agree with the goal. More dynamic worlds could be very interesting. However, I don't really think this is a step in that direction. The implementation in Kingmaker is simply the exact same timers we've had since the dawn of gaming. It's never been hard to implement, or a matter of technology; it's just a design choice by the developers.

Proper AI development is probably the only way to go beyond the dynamic worlds of The Witcher 3, Gothic 2, GTA5 and so on, which is bound to happen, but we're not there just yet.

 

[Pladio]

We will agree to disagree then. I feel like CRPGs should push forward in these areas. Keep in mind I'm not suggesting harsh timers for everything, or as punishing or challenging even as some in Kingmaker seem to be for others. I'm talking about pushing the idea of time as a real element in the game, I feel that is the upgrade we should be pushing towards. Dynamic events, dynamic worlds with real time elements are a natural evolution of the CRPG genre in my humble opinion. And that's all I have to say about that.

So you want games to be like work? With deadlines?

I play games to avoid that. I spend 8 hours or more per day at work having to work to deadlines. I don't want my games to have them. It doesn't add challenge, if adds frustration.



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[TheRealFluent]

So you want games to be like work? With deadlines?

I play games to avoid that. I spend 8 hours or more per day at work having to work to deadlines. I don't want my games to have them. It doesn't add challenge, if adds frustration.

Yes, I want games to be like work with deadlines

Some of us enjoy different things maybe. I enjoy management aspects of RPGs especially if time is involved. I'm having a lot of fun handling the kingdom and making sure I prepared enough time to adventure, etc.. It adds the challenge of management and gives you something else to think about. Otherwise we can take your logic all the way down.

Inventory weight - adds no challenge, just frustration.
Character weight limit - adds no challenge, just frustration.

and so on. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't add challenge or realism for someone else.

 

[Cacheperl]

Inventory weight - adds no challenge, just frustration.
Character weight limit - adds no challenge, just frustration.

I absolutely agree to those statements.

I'm considering to install some mod to deal with the inventory weight limit. Especially since items left on the ground in maps are not deleted and seem to increase load and save times (globally).

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

No-one able to answer me ?

 

[TheRealFluent]

I absolutely agree to those statements.

I'm considering to install some mod to deal with the inventory weight limit. Especially since items left on the ground in maps are not deleted and seem to increase load and save times (globally).

Those are some of my favorite parts of the RPG experience, so you can see how we differ there. Maybe they can include in the future more options to turn these things on or off as a la carte management or difficulty options. Future games, I mean.

 

[Couchpotato]

Fluent old buddy I'm worried about you. You have became way to fanatical about this game. Please take a break go outside enjoy the fresh air. It will do you some good.

 

[purpleblob]

I'm interested to see how people will react to my review lol so much diverse reactions.

I disliked encumbrance system in this game during beta phase but now I have no issues. Owlcats have balanced it a lot by adjusting item weight and adding bag of holding etc so that players can manage it better. I think it adds unique touch to the game - some sense of realism of travelling long distance, and adding more values to useful items (as opposed to hoarding all loots for $$ for players to grab best weapons/armours in game quickly, taking away challenge sooner).

Still don't like the hidden timer + kingdom management though. Owlcats built such a large and interesting world for players and yet took away freedom to explore it all with timer + kingdom management paranoia.

 

[TheRealFluent]

I'm interested to see how people will react to my review lol so much diverse reactions.

I disliked encumbrance system in this game during beta phase but now I have no issues. Owlcats have balanced it a lot by adjusting item weight and adding bag of holding etc so that players can manage it better. I think it adds unique touch to the game - some sense of realism of travelling long distance, and adding more values to useful items (as opposed to hoarding all loots for $$ for players to grab best weapons/armours in game quickly, taking away challenge sooner).

Still don't like the hidden timer + kingdom management though. Owlcats built such a large and interesting world for players and yet took away freedom to explore it all with timer + kingdom management paranoia.

I dunno, I am between chapters 2 and 3 and still have no problem exploring. I nearly uncovered all of the Narlmarches including the Dire Narlmarches, now I'm east in the Kamelands and have been exploring away. I make a mental note of when I should return to the capital (sometimes 10 days, sometimes 5 so I just explore a bit, try to use scrolls and potions to not have to rest so much, etc.) and it's been fine. I have no paranoia about kingdom management now, but maybe because I'm on my meds. But seriously, it seems fine for me, but I also finished Chapter 2 very quickly so I have a lot of time now to just roam around and adventure. Episodes 33, 34 and 35 of my Let's Play were nothing but roaming the countryside and exploring side areas.

I don't mean to sound like a fanatic but I think the game just takes a lot of getting used to. Events haven't been piling up, I'm able to upgrade my advisors here and there, I claimed the Outskirts and Kamelands already, I'm playing it very methodically and carefully. Currently in Serene kingdom state and have more things planned, like selling some hoarded magical items, buying some BP and either claiming the South Narlmarches or upgrading to a town/city. But right now I'm just enjoying exploring the map (90% of which I've already cleared before Chapter 3 even started - some areas were too tough and I have to return later, and I haven't been into the Varnhold area except Silverstep area).

P.S. I'm uploading a video now showing how much of the map I've cleared before Chapter 3 even started.

 

[purpleblob]

I have also uncovered most of the available areas in the map in my second playthrough - however, I think this is mainly due to the fact I know where to go for each quest now so I can resolve them quicker, rather than wandering around aimlessly and lost as I was in my first playthrough.

As I am approaching Varnhold, I'm getting paranoid again since it takes ages to go anywhere in that mountain regions and everything is so far from my capital, I really need to be careful to get back to my capital in time before my kingdom takes hit.

My kingdom is in "worried" state again, and I still no have idea why. I've claimed 3 more regions, my capital is now a town, I've planned out building layout so I get the maximum benefits and yet my people are worried. I'm getting quite frustrated over the kingdom system to be honest. I really like the feel of I'm actually fully involved in the running of the kingdom (like a real baroness!) but I hate that I have no idea what is making my people unhappy. In a love/hate relationship with the kingdom management! I spent quite a lot of gold buying building points earlier on to boost up the kingdom economy, and earning a lot more bp naturally/through tax etc. than in my first playthrough but still far from making the kingdom self sufficient. Sigh.

 

[TheRealFluent]

I have also uncovered most of the available areas in the map in my second playthrough - however, I think this is mainly due to the fact I know where to go for each quest now so I can resolve them quicker, rather than wandering around aimlessly and lost as I was in my first playthrough.

As I am approaching Varnhold, I'm getting paranoid again since it takes ages to go anywhere in that mountain regions and everything is so far from my capital, I really need to be careful to get back to my capital in time before my kingdom takes hit.

My kingdom is in "worried" state again, and I still no have idea why. I've claimed 3 more regions, my capital is now a town, I've planned out building layout so I get the maximum benefits and yet my people are worried. I'm getting quite frustrated over the kingdom system to be honest. I really like the feel of I'm actually fully involved in the running of the kingdom (like a real baroness!) but I hate that I have no idea what is making my people unhappy. In a love/hate relationship with the kingdom management! I spent quite a lot of gold buying building points earlier on to boost up the kingdom economy, and earning a lot more bp naturally/through tax etc. than in my first playthrough but still far from making the kingdom self sufficient. Sigh.

I think worried is automatic after a certain event. It's scripted that way. You have to build back up over time. I believe that is story related.

And yes, it takes learning the game from the first run to understand more how to handle it all. The game needed to explain it more to you, but for us we just learned from the first run better how to explore and plan the kingdom at the same time.

As for exploring mountain regions, make sure to take many rations, but also use scrolls and potions. Try to limit your spell usage, and make sure to set aside 10 days or so for you to explore.

Here is my video that might help you all. Hopefully it can shed some light -

 

[Morrandir]

My kingdom is in "worried" state again, and I still no have idea why.

I've read somewhere that a negative BP account balance decreases the state. You can get into negatives when you're low on funds and fail events that cost BP. I got into riots twice before understanding this.
So you need to always have some spare money for unforseen costs.
I like the general idea but again the game fails to communicate it properly.

 

[you]

What is BP ?

 

[Cacheperl]

Building Points.

The currency you spend on buildings/projects and other kingdom related stuff.

 

[Pladio]

Yes, I want games to be like work with deadlines

Some of us enjoy different things maybe. I enjoy management aspects of RPGs especially if time is involved. I'm having a lot of fun handling the kingdom and making sure I prepared enough time to adventure, etc.. It adds the challenge of management and gives you something else to think about. Otherwise we can take your logic all the way down.

Inventory weight - adds no challenge, just frustration.
Character weight limit - adds no challenge, just frustration.

and so on. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't add challenge or realism for someone else.

I absolutely agree to those statements.

I'm considering to install some mod to deal with the inventory weight limit. Especially since items left on the ground in maps are not deleted and seem to increase load and save times (globally).

Haha, me too. Most of the games I enjoy the most have no inventory limit (Gothic, Elex, Banner Saga).
One of the things I hated about D:OS was the inventory management.

I think the only game where inventory management had some element of fun was M&M7 as it had that fun ragdoll model at the time which was innovative and cute.

Other than that, I have never ever enjoyed that.

In Fallout, it was also one of the annoying things as you coudl still carry 3 rocket launchers on you which wasn't realistic, but that one extra piece of ammo was too heavy.

So, no realism isn't 'fun' for me.

 

[Pladio]

No-one able to answer me ?

Sorry, I do not know. Try a different email address they may have.

 

[bjon045]

No-one able to answer me ?

From the last update:

P.S.
News of physical rewards for Pathfinder: KIngmaker backers coming real soon! We've already started shipping stuff out, including boxed editions of the game - stay tuned for an update

 

[purpleblob]

I've read somewhere that a negative BP account balance decreases the state. You can get into negatives when you're low on funds and fail events that cost BP. I got into riots twice before understanding this.
So you need to always have some spare money for unforseen costs.
I like the general idea but again the game fails to communicate it properly.

Yeah I had that issue in my first run, so for this run, I always kept 100+ bp reserve. It seems like I had too low stability this time around. Sigh, I wish there is an option to talk to my subject what's currently making them worried/unhappy.

 

[Morrandir]

Sigh, I wish there is an option to talk to my subject what's currently making them worried/unhappy.

I wouldn't even need actuall dialog. A simple list would be enough.

Some more questions on kingdom management: The buildings in your settlements give boni to certain kingsom stats (community, divine, military etc.). Are these one-time boni that are added as soon as the building is finished or is there a steady flow each weak/month?
What happens when I destroy a building and rebuild it?

 

[Cacheperl]

I wouldn't even need actuall dialog. A simple list would be enough.

Some more questions on kingdom management: The buildings in your settlements give boni to certain kingsom stats (community, divine, military etc.). Are these one-time boni that are added as soon as the building is finished or is there a steady flow each weak/month?
What happens when I destroy a building and rebuild it?

One-time boni. The only other benefits may come from quests (artisan buildings) synergies (between buildings added later on) and upgrades of each building.

If you destroy+rebuild a building, you should loose the boni, and regain them after construction is finished. But I never really double checked if this works as intended.

What I also noticed is this: you gain some few BP from destroying a building, less than the original cost.
BUT, those regained BP always seem to be enough to place the same building somewhere else on the town grid. This is due to the fact that rebuilding a destroyed building receives a discount.

Essentially, moving buildings to a different position on the town map (destroy+rebuild) has no BP cost. You only loose the days required for construction.
Of course, you also loose some BP when you do not rebuild, but instead build something else.

PS: the only steady flow you receive is BP.