Please Dems, not Hillary!

[dteowner]

I'd love to argue, but I'm afraid that we're remarkably close to agreement. I don't lay all the blame at Dubya's feet as you seem to, but I can't dispute your summary of the current situation.

So then, I guess the question becomes, "is the US ready for a politician to tell them the truth?" We had a brief spasm of realism with Ross Perot's candidacy, but that movement didn't last very long (partially because he turned out to be a bit of a nutjob). Eventually, we won't have a choice, but when a pinko commie and an imperialist pig-dog ( ) can reach agreement on an RPG board, we might be starting something.

 

[Prime Junta]

Count in this anti-American terrorist sympathizer too.

I just read a piece by one typically muddle-headed NY Times columnist arguing that we're about to enter a great new age of conciliation. I'll drink to that.

 

[txa1265]

I'll drink to that.

You go do that with your fair company in your nice travels, enjoy it

 

[zahratustra]

LOL that's true margerette. The only European language Finnish has any relation to is Hungarian

 

[Prime Junta]

Sounds like an excellent getaway from the frozen north. I was wondering, listening to some Finnish being spoken the other day, if it has any relation to the Italian tongue--every so often it seems to echo a pronunciation...And it's somehow reassuring to think you have been blessed by the Pope, Prime J. I envy you the experience of historical continuity that represents.

The phonetics are similar -- lots of diphthongs and a sing-song kind of intonation. Unfortunately that's where the similarity ends; the only advantage is that Italian is easy for a Finn to pronounce, which leads to other problems, i.e., people thinking you actually know the language when about all you can manage is "un mezzo di rosso, per favore." Finnish is related to Estonian, Saami (the Laplander language), and a bunch of mostly moribund languages across Russia and Siberia that only Fenno-Ugrists have heard of, like Karelian, Ostyak, Votyak, Mordva, and Samoyed; Hungarian is a very distant relation, about as close to Finnish as Swedish is to Italian.

Where did you run across Finnish spoken in Oklahoma, out of curiosity? I was under the impression that my compatriots headed more towards Minnesota and Oregon.

(Re the Pope: it wasn't exactly a personal audience, we just happened by the St. Peter's square around noon yesterday. He had some kind words to say about Lebanon, which was a nice bonus. Patience and understanding to the politicians, that the war of words won't turn into a war involving the physical annihilation of the other, that the various communities will coexist peacefully, that sort of thing.)

 

[Eliaures]

So then, I guess the question becomes, "is the US ready for a politician to tell them the truth?" We had a brief spasm of realism with Ross Perot's candidacy, but that movement didn't last very long (partially because he turned out to be a bit of a nutjob). Eventually, we won't have a choice, but when a pinko commie and an imperialist pig-dog ( ) can reach agreement on an RPG board, we might be starting something.

Yes, I was briefly a Perotnista until he started his crazies. We can come to an agreement because we are both level headed individuals. Personally, I enjoy hearing you and others with differing opinions. I'd like to think I have an open mind and I've often changed my thinking and my attitudes throughout my life. Believe it or not, I believe in capitalism and democracy. I just think it works best when it has restraints and limits.

When people grow up, they are supposed to behave as adults. I don't find this to be the case. We're still stingy, greedy, (Mine!), we don't want to take the blame (He did it!), and selfish and we need a daddy, government, to keep us in check. The daddy is preferably someone we pick in our more adult moments, and not a Stalin or Pinochet; but someone that will make the tough decisions for what is best for the "child", even though we may not like it...ewww, lima beans.

 

[magerette]

*snip*
Where did you run across Finnish spoken in Oklahoma, out of curiosity? I was under the impression that my compatriots headed more towards Minnesota and Oregon.

You're quite right--no Finnish is being spoken in my immediate vicinity, but thanks to the wonders of the Internet, I can listen to Tarja Turunen being interviewed on YouTube. (She almost looks Italian, except for that nordic cheekbone thing.)

Thanks for the linguistics lesson- Fenno-Ugrists, eh?---I did recall reading that Finnish was a rather isolated tongue and not descended from the usual progenitors. And by god, I've heard of the Samoyed people--but only because I once had a beautiful big white dog of that eponymous breed. (Her name was Kumis. )

(Re the Pope:...Patience and understanding to the politicians, that the war of words won't turn into a war involving the physical annihilation of the other, that the various communities will coexist peacefully, that sort of thing.)

Very Popelike, in fact. I'd like to hear the same from more who stand behind the pulpit--bully or otherwise.


dte wrote:

Eventually, we won't have a choice, but when a pinko commie and an imperialist pig-dog ( ) can reach agreement on an RPG board, we might be starting something.

And they say Hillary is a polarizer. At this rate, she may be the one to unite the country. Perhaps not in a good way, but they say anger can be very cleansing.

 

[magerette]

Just watched a very choppy streamed version of the latest Dem debate, and I have to say, while I still hate her, Hillary was pretty impressive, particularly on foreign policy. She clearly knew and could almost pronounce the name of Putin's successor (Obama looked clueless) and gave a concise synopsis of Medvedev's place in the succession to power, going on to describe the various global hotspots with quick fluency, and state the necessity of being a proactive player in world affairs as well as doing something about the negative US image which she aptly described as "our inheritance from George Bush."

On the other hand, Obama certainly made no major mistakes. He was calm, charming, specific and idealistically sincere. He did for the first time strike me as being infinitely younger than Clinton, with both the virtues and drawbacks of that state. I have to admit though, I'm getting a little tired of hearing "the suffering and struggling masses desperate to send their kids to college and have health insurance" angle from both of them.

On the whole though, I thought they both did equally well at presenting an articulate and aggressive stance on tackling the problems we face here and abroad. Hillary really needs to back down from the bitchiness, though. Other than that, the two of them reflected each other's comments and opinions like mirrors. So much so that for the first time I wondered if perhaps they might be leading up to a joint run. The last few minutes were all about how each of them approved of the other as a fit party"standard bearer.'....

 

[Prime Junta]

On the whole though, I thought they both did equally well at presenting an articulate and aggressive stance on tackling the problems we face here and abroad. Hillary really needs to back down from the bitchiness, though. Other than that, the two of them reflected each other's comments and opinions like mirrors. So much so that for the first time I wondered if perhaps they might be leading up to a joint run. The last few minutes were all about how each of them approved of the other as a fit party"standard bearer.'....

That would be trippy. Three for the price of one!

 

[txa1265]

My big concern is that while I have no doubt that Obama would bow out gracefully, Clinton is likely to use whatever slimy above and below board tactics she can think of to hurt him, and even when defeat is inevitable she won't give up ... and we'll end up with McCain and whatever bible-thumper right wingnut he is forced to take as veep ...

I hope I'm wrong ... on all accounts.

 

[Prime Junta]

My big concern is that while I have no doubt that Obama would bow out gracefully, Clinton is likely to use whatever slimy above and below board tactics she can think of to hurt him, and even when defeat is inevitable she won't give up ... and we'll end up with McCain and whatever bible-thumper right wingnut he is forced to take as veep ...

I hope I'm wrong ... on all accounts.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on at least *some* accounts. But we may know quite soon now, depending on which way Texas and Ohio swing.

 

[magerette]

That would be trippy. Three for the price of one!

Yes, America could have one of those Troika things with Obama, Hillary and a shadowy Bill pulling strings behind the screens...not something envisioned by the founding fathers.

It's pretty doubtful, though--I don't know if Hillary could swallow her...issues...and take position #2, and I don't know if she could possibly get a nomination for #1 at this point.

The funniest part last night was Obama 'denouncing and rejecting' Farrakhan; she just doesn't understand so many basic human things--he made her look infinitely petty, and with her supercilious, mean schoolteacher expression,she made herself look even worse...

If nothing else, it's been an interesting and involving spectacle. As you say, we'll know more soon.

 

[txa1265]

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on at least *some* accounts. But we may know quite soon now, depending on which way Texas and Ohio swing.

I readily admit to a deep-seated and irrational mistrust and dislike of the Clintons

 

[Eliaures]

I winced heavily when Hillary sprung that obviously prepared rant against getting the first question and using it to moan about how the media likes Obama more than her by referencing the SNL skit.

"We're desperate, get used to it" X - We're Desperate - Wild Gift

 

[txa1265]

Hilary came off as every bad stereotype that women would like to avoid ...

 

[Eliaures]

This is the reason I don't like the Clintons. She's been accusing the Obama campaign of using Karl Rove's "playbook", but look at this ad.

3 AM Clinton Ad

Her campaign is using fear mongering, just as do the Republicans. Can you get any more reprehensible? I hate the win at all costs mentality and arrogance of the Clintons.

 

[magerette]

Newsweek is trying to sell buyers remorse setting in with Obama--I think its more a case of brand recognition with the Clintons..and if you don't know what they're selling by now....

 

[zahratustra]

I like Obama more than I like Hillary but that's not how politicians should be judged. If you look purely at their actual track record than there really is no contest: Hilary wins every time! I also balk at "Obamamania" and think that giving politician something close to a "popstar" status is dangerous both to the politician and to his supporters. Can he prevent his ego from overinflating? There is a lot of hope riding on his candidacy but can he really cash all the "IOYs" he is handling out right now? I can't really blame him for not damping down all the enthusiasm but unrealisticaly high expectations are a very dangerous thing.....

 

[Eliaures]

Hillary Clinton has a whole 4 years over Obama in the Senate. That's it. She's counting the eight years as First Lady as "experience". I don't think riding elephants in 182 different countries makes you any more experienced in governance.

I'm not sure we're all judging Hillary on like/dislike. I never had the anti-Hillary fervor the right whipped up, but everything she's shown as corporate lawyer, wife of a prominent politician, and as legislator has shown me that she is not someone I place my trust. She represents for me all the insider politics that I'm so bloody tired of. I'm not sure Obama is going to be much better, he's shown too much "give" towards the right for my tastes; but I guess I prefer to "roll the dice", as Bill Clinton says, on someone new than play it safe with a pair of twos, to use another gambling metaphor.

 

[Squeek]

It's very hard to predict what will happen Tuesday, IMO. Clinton did well in the debate (pundit comments aside), and McCain has done a good job raising doubts about Obama's Iraq strategy in the meantime.

Obama's poll numbers keep getting better and better, but I don't trust the polls for the two upcoming primaries. The fact that their votes could either eliminate Clinton or cinch it for Obama might pressure the voters in Ohio and Texas. If it does, that influence is likely to work in Clinton's favor, IMO.

Obama just doesn't have enough in the tank to beat McCain, and that's why I hope Clinton gets the Democratic nomination. Obama's a tough competitor for her but won't be nearly as tough for him.

I actually like John McCain very much. But if this war is going to end anytime soon, Clinton's the one who will make it happen.