Poll: New grimoire website is up

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Better to give it away now…

Your mom makes that look easy.

 

[mondblut]

The poll is missing the most likely outcome - the beta test will start, and when it's over, the game will go into another 4 years bugfixing cycle, just like the previous 3 times

 

[dteowner]

The poll is missing the most likely outcome - the beta test will start, and when it's over, the game will go into another 4 years bugfixing cycle, just like the previous 3 times

Actually, that's fairly close to option 2, which is where my vote went.

My nitpick with your prediction is that (at least for the last cycle when I was involved) that 4 year delay was about 4 weeks of bugfix followed by 4 years of feature tweaking. It's not like the beta had that many buggies. Heck, most AAA titles these days get released with more bugs than we found in Cleve's beta. He just can't seem to stop giving it technological overhauls that, while nice, aren't necessary.

 

[mondblut]

Well, option 2, as opposed to option 3, says betatesting will be "announced", not accomplished

4 weeks of bugfix and a broken dialogue scripting which was to be scrapped all over again, was it not?

 

[metamorphium]

I'd be interested what brand new features actually made it into grimoire. My feeling is that if this time was used solely for bug fixing, it must be done after all these years.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Was there an actual beta test last winter/spring, before it was NOT released in March? It seems like none of the old beta testing crew were involved, at least.

 

[dteowner]

4 weeks of bugfix and a broken dialogue scripting which was to be scrapped all over again, was it not?

There was only 1 seriously broken dialogue that I'm aware of, which was fixed pretty quickly during the beta. I personally requested some changes in the dialogues themselves (better clues to "what to do now"), but the system was OK. In the process of improving that, Cleve decided to rip the whole thing out and replace it. That's kinda been his MO--something needs a minor tweak (as in, fix a single dialogue), so he rips down everything he's got (as in, the entire dialogue system) and starts over. By the time he's done with that, he notices something else that could use a minor tweak, so he rips that system out completely and installs a new system. Rinse and repeat for the next 4 years.

 

[dteowner]

Was there an actual beta test last winter/spring, before it was NOT released in March? It seems like none of the old beta testing crew were involved, at least.

Not that I'm aware of, although that's no guarantee.

 

[Corwin]

Nothing seems to work on Cleve's new forums, including the PM system. It won't even let me send him one!!

 

[cutterjohn]

Dude that crappy parchment texture looks like it makes that spidery font HORRIBLY difficult to read…

…and yeah, he's squatted on the game so long it's no longer really saleable at any reasonable pricepoint, so he may as well OSS it…

BTW: how can his games be better than I remember if he's NEVER released ANY?! Or even if he's more likely implying that his copies of older games are better, still… It's entirely ludicrous!

Boards: when I checked earlier he had no boards, so he must've just installed the basics w/everything shutoff...

BTW: does the beta work in a virtual machine? i.e. is it realy a DOS app? or just have some funky 16b Windows weirdness, e.g. 98/95/ME?

 

[Corwin]

The beta works perfectly in XP; it doesn't in Vista or 7. Well, actually, it runs for a few minutes and then crashes so I assume it is looking for something which no longer exists in those OS's!!

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

…and yeah, he's squatted on the game so long it's no longer really saleable at any reasonable pricepoint, so he may as well OSS it…

I don't believe a guy like you could come up with the money to buy a game anyway, so that's academic as far as you are concerned. Trying to talk me into giving you a free copy is making me pity you, sure - but I actually pitied you before you started begging me.

Have you ever personally held a day job that paid in real dollars?

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Not that I'm aware of, although that's no guarantee.

I tested it with some people I know to get some more feedback on combat mechanics. I am organizing for a new team to start testing again and will be contacting Corwin.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Actually, that's fairly close to option 2, which is where my vote went.

My nitpick with your prediction is that (at least for the last cycle when I was involved) that 4 year delay was about 4 weeks of bugfix followed by 4 years of feature tweaking. It's not like the beta had that many buggies. Heck, most AAA titles these days get released with more bugs than we found in Cleve's beta. He just can't seem to stop giving it technological overhauls that, while nice, aren't necessary.

I do not want it to crash when playing, for any reason. Yes, I have much higher standards than ordinary human beings. That was pretty obvious by now. Yes, I am very different from other people you may know. That was pretty obvious, too. Being essentially a giant neanderthal with radically different psychology compared to mere mortals, it is to be expected I would have different standards of what would constitute "finished."

I'm not much influenced by what others think, prefer, practice or advocate. I don't know if I know much about what I am doing, but certainly others would know even less. I do not want to release games that have bugs in them, even if the bugs only show up once in a while. Unacceptable, to me. What others "would" release and in what condition doesn't really have any effect on me at all.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Which is why others release stuff and you don't. Which is fine, but its still a fact.

 

[holeraw]

Porbus and Poussin, burning with eager curiosity, hurried into a vast studio. Everything was in disorder and covered with dust, but they saw a few pictures here and there upon the wall. They stopped first of all in admiration before the life-size figure of a woman partially draped.

"Oh! never mind that," said Frenhofer; "that is a rough daub that I made, a study, a pose, it is nothing. These are my failures," he went on, indicating the enchanting compositions upon the walls of the studio.

This scorn for such works of art struck Porbus and Poussin dumb with amazement. They looked round for the picture of which he had spoken, and could not discover it.

"Look here!" said the old man. His hair was disordered, his face aglow with a more than human exaltation, his eyes glittered, he breathed hard like a young lover frenzied by love.

"Aha!" he cried, "you did not expect to see such perfection! You are looking for a picture, and you see a woman before you. There is such depth in that canvas, the atmosphere is so true that you can not distinguish it from the air that surrounds us. Where is art? Art has vanished, it is invisible! It is the form of a living girl that you see before you. Have I not caught the very hues of life, the spirit of the living line that defines the figure? Is there not the effect produced there like that which all natural objects present in the atmosphere about them, or fishes in the water? Do you see how the figure stands out against the background? Does it not seem to you that you pass your hand along the back? But then for seven years I studied and watched how the daylight blends with the objects on which it falls. And the hair, the light pours over it like a flood, does it not?… Ah! she breathed, I am sure that she breathed! Her breast—ah, see! Who would not fall on his knees before her? Her pulses throb. She will rise to her feet. Wait!"

...................

 

[GothicGothicness]

I invented the elixir of immortality, with a slight imperfection… it only last 1 million years instead of forever, now I am dying soon, but it is not yet perfected! I must finish it before the day I die……..

 

[cutterjohn]

I don't believe a guy like you could come up with the money to buy a game anyway, so that's academic as far as you are concerned. Trying to talk me into giving you a free copy is making me pity you, sure - but I actually pitied you before you started begging me.

Have you ever personally held a day job that paid in real dollars?

phppht! More than you have, and likely making at least an order of magnitude more than yourself.

I wasn't attempting to acquire a "free" copy, merely pointing out that your game is so old, and will be so dated that you don't even dare trying to sell it as evidenced by years of teasing and failure of any further action. I would have said that the game was so feeble that you were too big of a coward to actually release however Corwin claims that it's passable.

BTW: Let me suggest a slight name change for your game, Grimoire: Forever.

So either spare us your whinging and take some action, or bugger off.

[EDIT]
Actually Cleve would have much more credibility if he ever actually finished anything. I'm betting that he's continuously unemployed and unemployable, and that the site has just come back up again because of his recent release from the psychiatric ward(again).
[/EDIT]

 

[dteowner]

I do not want it to crash when playing, for any reason. Yes, I have much higher standards than ordinary human beings. That was pretty obvious by now. Yes, I am very different from other people you may know. That was pretty obvious, too. Being essentially a giant neanderthal with radically different psychology compared to mere mortals, it is to be expected I would have different standards of what would constitute "finished."

I'm not much influenced by what others think, prefer, practice or advocate. I don't know if I know much about what I am doing, but certainly others would know even less. I do not want to release games that have bugs in them, even if the bugs only show up once in a while. Unacceptable, to me. What others "would" release and in what condition doesn't really have any effect on me at all.

All well within your rights, and you've clearly accepted the inevitable snipes from the peanut gallery resulting from your decisions for several years now. It was a very good game when you let me test it, and I have no doubt it's gotten better since then. I just can't help but be reminded of a little diddie that, being an engineer, I very much appreciate and enjoy:

There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and call it done.

Still, it's your creation, so you have sole control over when it's ready for the world, which is exactly how it should be.

 

[metamorphium]

@cutterjohn, your assumption is incorrect. I'd be willing to pay full price day 0 for such game if it ever comes out. I am no longer interested in flashy games where you watch 20 minutes cutscenes and then go through corridor with some tedious and uninspired gameplay. I am sick of being spoonfed - heck I don't need to read instructions for everything I do.

Simpler graphics might stimulate more imagination than super duper 3D/4D/5D. (I remember how much I was drawn into Trinity or Mind forever Voyaging)

So to make this short, I still - with a tiny speck of hope - watch Grimoire webpage from time to time as I am expecting to be seriously challenged by the game. I want to be actually afraid what lurks after next corner, I want to be immersed in the huge world and don't want to have this magic arrow of spoil appearing as soon as I wander away from the scripted path. Based on ancient Corwin's review, Grimoire delivers just this.

This game probably wouldn't be for everyone, but I belong to the game-target camp for sure.