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[DArtagnan]

Impressive!

I lost 30 kg. in 8 months - a number of years back

Wasn't hard, as I was very motivated.

What's hard is keeping them off, especially if you're NOT motivated…

 

[Moriendor]

You would've lost the same weight and packed muscle that would've helped you keep your weight since muscle uses fat as an energy source to rebuild itself.

Sorry to put it that bluntly but that is complete and utter bullshit (although a common misconception so you are forgiven, my son ).
The energy source for the rebuilding (and buildup) of muscles is protein and protein only. You can not, under no circumstances whatsoever, turn fat into muscles. Fat reduction and muscle buildup occur totally independent of each other.

 

[JDR13]

The energy source for the rebuilding (and buildup) of muscles is protein and protein only. You can not, under no circumstances whatsoever, turn fat into muscles. Fat reduction and muscle buildup occur totally independent of each other.

That is true, although the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn at any given moment. That is one of the reasons why working out helps to keep you lean. It increases your metabolic rate.

 

[JemyM]

It's good to loose weight but wouldn't it have been easier

I have tried all sorts of methods in so many years, including regular workout. I wouldn't claim it's easy. If you weight 35kg over your ideal weight, everything is hard. VLCD is something I could do while studying the most and I was guaranteed to not fail as long as I stuck with the program.

Now the problem is that you'll need to maintain that diet in order not to put the pounds back on.

Calories in, calories out, is still the basic formula. VLCD is 477 kcal per day and I burn almost 2000 per day, sitting down. Naturally if I kept the diet, I would continue to loose weight at a rapid pace, and I already think I look like a skeleton...

That said, I am well aware that keeping weight is the real challenge, so when I started this session, the plan to how I was going to keep the weight have been in my mind the entire year. Between february-may I was sucessful in doing so.

EDIT: Actually you never mentioned if you worked out during your diet. If you did, you can ignore my post.

I usually walk to the university (back and forth from the station) which equals 90 min walk x3 week.

 

[JemyM]

Where does it state that he lost 35 kg? That would be 77 lbs, and it doesn't look like he lost *that* much.

I lost 35kg in total.

 

[fatBastard()]

I also tried exercising and building up muscle mass in order to lose weight a few years ago. After 9 months of pushing metal around the gym I could *FEEL* a difference and I could see that weights on the dumbbells increased, but there was no indication of any effect on the scales or the waistline.

Then I decided to go on the "Weight Consultants" diet and in 6 months I lost 25 kg. I probably COULD have lost the weight by exercise alone but it would have taken many years of constant training to do and without also changing my diet it would have prolonged to process to last decades (the most "buff" guys at the gym are constantly following an even stricter diet than I was during those 6 months).

If you're close to your "ideal" weight and only need to lose a few pounds, exercise is as valid a method as a diet but when you need to lose quite a lot of weight a diet is the only realistically way to do it.

Anyway, way to go JemyM

 

[DArtagnan]

Losing weight is incredibly simple:

Consume less calories than you burn.

 

[JemyM]

Losing weight is incredibly simple:
Consume less calories than you burn.

Within the field of math yes. By math, if you eat 7000 calories on monday and 0 calories on tuesday-friday you will also lose weight. In reality, that's not how a human works. One could argue that it's so oversimplified that the expression in itself is practically useless. But it's good as a core rule.

Humans aren't machines. The rational consciousness only represent a fraction of human reasoning and behavior. Research have been done that shows how human judgement is skewed by not eating for example, which means that when you eat is as important as what you eat, perhaps more important. If you refrain from consuming a breakfast, your body impulses will have radical impact on your judgement a few hours later. All signals in your body will seek themselves to what the body understand to be rich of calories in order to compensate. If you eat every 3 hours instead, you will keep yourself balanced and your ratinal calculating brain will be in power, which also means you will have better judgement in what you eat.

 

[JemyM]

If you're close to your "ideal" weight and only need to lose a few pounds, exercise is as valid a method as a diet but when you need to lose quite a lot of weight a diet is the only realistically way to do it.

True. From what I know a kilogram equals 7700 calories and I naturally burned 2300 kcal per day without exercise. With weight-watchers I would have a daily intake of around 1600 kcal, loosing half a kilogram (a pound) per week.

With VLCD I consumed 477 kcal per day which equals 1-2 kilograms, 3-4 pounds a week.

It's reasonable to live with a daily intake of 2000kcal and enjoy your life, but if you have 30 kilo to loose you will spend over a year eating just-beneath-satisfied while being constantly tired of dragging around a bag of +60 pounds around your waist, you are more than likely to fail. Doing it 4 times faster, with a guaranteed and simplified diet, that allowed me to see the result and see the goal rapidly approaching, made weightloss possible. At less than 5 kilogram overweight it's easier to approach a healthier diet and more exercise.

That said, keeping weight should be the real challenge, one people on VLCD tend to forget.

 

[DArtagnan]

Within the field of math yes. By math, if you eat 7000 calories on monday and 0 calories on tuesday-friday you will also lose weight. In reality, that's not how a human works. One could argue that it's so oversimplified that the expression in itself is practically useless. But it's good as a core rule.

Humans aren't machines. The rational consciousness only represent a fraction of human reasoning and behavior. Research have been done that shows how human judgement is skewed by not eating for example, which means that when you eat is as important as what you eat, perhaps more important. If you refrain from consuming a breakfast, your body impulses will have radical impact on your judgement a few hours later. All signals in your body will seek themselves to what the body understand to be rich of calories in order to compensate. If you eat every 3 hours instead, you will keep yourself balanced and your ratinal calculating brain will be in power, which also means you will have better judgement in what you eat.

I think you're confusing concepts, though.

Simple != Easy.

How hard it is to lose weight, depends on a myriad of factors - that I won't get into here.

But, I used to be overweight in my youth and struggled a lot with it. So, I have some idea of the challenges.

That said, once I started counting calories and realising how many were in what kinds of food, it became much easier to manage, due to how my personality works.

But, it really is INCREDIBLY simple. It's human nature that makes the simple stuff hard

Just like the relationships between men and women - hehe!

 

[JemyM]

That is true, although the more muscle you have, the more calories you burn at any given moment. That is one of the reasons why working out helps to keep you lean. It increases your metabolic rate.

Definitely true, which is an important lesson for those who tend to jump up and down 5-10 kilograms.

Obesity is a clinical condition however, and being clinically sick require another approach than a healthy individual trying to keep themselves healthy.

 

[JemyM]

That said, once I started counting calories and realising how many were in what kinds of food, it became much easier to manage, due to how my personality works.

I have taken three methods in order to keep weight now;

1. Approach food like a budget. Learn the price of everything and put it into paper. Learn the math. In the beginning it's a lot to take in, in time it's easy. I know now what a big mac or a cheezeburger is "worth".

2. Do not skip, compensate. You do not need to give up pleasures for the rest of your life. If you eat 1600kcal 3 days of the week you can without shame eat someting you like on the weekend. If you can do some simple exercise throughout the week, add that as a bonus. Of course, doing the math might reveal that something that wasn't important to you was in fact very "pricy". I usually take sweet & sour dip to my nuggets now instead of sourcream & pepper.

3. Eat every 3 hours and before you are hungry. This allow you to make better judgement when you eat and you keep yourself in control.

 

[DArtagnan]

I have taken three methods in order to keep weight now;

1. Approach food like a budget. Learn the price of everything and put it into paper. Learn the math. In the beginning it's a lot to take in, in time it's easy. I know now what a big mac or a cheezeburger is "worth".

2. Do not skip, compensate. You do not need to give up pleasures for the rest of your life. If you eat 1600kcal 3 days of the week you can without shame eat someting you like on the weekend. If you can do some simple exercise throughout the week, add that as a bonus. Of course, doing the math might reveal that something that wasn't important to you was in fact very "pricy". I usually take sweet & sour dip to my nuggets now instead of sourcream & pepper.

3. Eat every 3 hours and before you are hungry. This allow you to make better judgement when you eat and you keep yourself in control.

Yeah, I do pretty much the same thing.

It's a huge mistake to skip pleasures - and I often "over-eat", only to compensate the following days. Otherwise, I couldn't function.

I do work out quite a bit, but I do that by taking walks and lifting weights at home. I'm not much of a "gym" guy, so I prefer it that way. At the moment, I lift weights 1 hour - 4 times a week, and take 2 1+ hour walks in the woods with my dog

So, that's 6 days of excercise and I "rest" on saturdays.

That's beyond what other activities I do - and according to my calculations, I should actually intake 3K calories each day. But I only consume 2.5K - because I want that last bit of fat gone from my stomach.

I don't bother too much about when I eat, and I know it costs me. Ideally, you'd eat most in the morning - so your body has an easier time burning calories - and I know about 6 meals a day, etc.

I'm a pretty controlled individual, so I can easily go through most of the day eating little but fruit at work - and return home to a big meal Not very optimal or healthy, but it works for me. But it is becoming harder, because I've put on a bit of muscle lately, and I can hear my body screaming for more energy!

So - I'm trying to balance things out.

My advantage is that I'm good with numbers in my head, and though it took a while to get really comfortable with calories - I now feel I have a very good "relaxed" system. I also look pretty good, so I can't complain

 

[JemyM]

I do work out quite a bit, but I do that by taking walks and lifting weights at home. I'm not much of a "gym" guy, so I prefer it that way. At the moment, I lift weights 1 hour - 4 times a week, and take 2 1+ hour walks in the woods with my dog

I feel that I do not have time for gym, but I go to the university 3-4 days per week. I begun to walk to the station in my home town, then I began to walk to the university in the other town, then I began to walk back. I did this while listening to audio lectures, so I was studying and walking at the same time, and due to the time tables I didn't "waste" any more time than I would sitting at a trainstation. Together this meant aprox 90 minutes of speedwalking 3 times a week.

It will be a bit more difficult when winter comes though.

But I only consume 2.5K - because I want that last bit of fat gone from my stomach.

Despite the exercise, I aimed at 2000, because I felt it to be a good and easy number. Now at weight 74, my MBR is actually 2000 without exercise so I am going to stick to it.

I'm a pretty controlled individual, so I can easily go through most of the day eating little but fruit at work - and return home to a big meal Not very optimal or healthy, but it works for me. But it is becoming harder, because I've put on a bit of muscle lately, and I can hear my body screaming for more energy!

I tend to forget meals, then hunger smacks me out of the blue and ruins my judgement, so for me it's important to eat regulary. I tend to overeat if I allow myself to get hungry. However, I have also learned that a 2000 kcal meal at 18:00 if I havn't eaten anything prior to that, is ok. The math is at the end the ultimate guideline and framework for me.

 

[Moriendor]

I also tried exercising and building up muscle mass in order to lose weight a few years ago. After 9 months of pushing metal around the gym I could *FEEL* a difference and I could see that weights on the dumbbells increased, but there was no indication of any effect on the scales or the waistline.
...
...
If you're close to your "ideal" weight and only need to lose a few pounds, exercise is as valid a method as a diet but when you need to lose quite a lot of weight a diet is the only realistically way to do it.

Well, you did the "wrong" kind of exercise if you (only) "pushed metal" to lose weight . The effect of a higher metabolic rate through muscle buildup is comparatively minimal. What you really need to do to lose weight is cardio workout. Weight lifting can be used in addition to the cardio workout to speed up the weight loss a tad bit and to counter the loss of muscles which (for us men) is unfortunately an inevitable side effect any diet (and of intense cardio workout, too).
The majority of the exercise "work", however, should be coming from activities such as running, biking (note that you need to bike approximately two to three times longer to get the same effect as with running) or swimming or spinning or whatever floats your boat.

Of course if someone is untrained and overweight it is essential to start slow and to take it easy for the first six to eight weeks. It also makes sense to stay away from running at first if you're really overweight and to go for biking or swimming in order to avoid injuries.

But once you've made some progress and once your body has become fully accustomed to the exercise (i.e. after eight to twelve weeks) the kilos/pounds/fat will start melting away like ice in the sunshine.

And since I forgot it above: Grats on your weight loss, Jemy! You did very well. Great job! Now I wish you all the best in managing to keep it that way.
If I had to make a suggestion I'd propose a running "career". That's what I did when I quit smoking (I was never overweight though) and it's extreme amounts of fun. It's like LARPing in a way. Building up agility, speed and strength in RL is like RPGing gone real.
Actually, at least to me, it has become a lot more fun than doing it with my virtual alter egos at the computer .

 

[DArtagnan]

Excercise is a relatively minor aspect of weight loss.

What's key is the calorie intake vs burn.

Naturally, it gets harder if you're the sort of person with zero physical activity.

But it's very easy to calculate an approximate calorie need, and simply reduce it by ~500-1000 calories each day. That will give you a healthy and steady weight loss. This can be accomplished without any kind of extra physical activity. Though it's hard to begin with. It takes about a week, before your body adjusts to the lower intake, and perhaps longer for some.

But since excercise is generally the hardest aspect of losing weight for lazy people, I advise not to focus on that. It is a nice addition, which will also keep you fit - naturally, but it really is quite minor in terms of losing weight.

If you're not physically active at all, though, I recommend taking walks, if you're not inclined to run. You burn half as many calories as when running - and you want to walk at least an hour each time. At LEAST 3 time each week. A one-hour brisk walk, will burn ~300 calories. So, it's not that much - but it helps.

Coupled with calorie intake reduction, that's basically it.

The most challenging aspect, really, is keeping the numbers straight in your head. Every single thing you put in your mouth, needs to be calculated precisely. After a while, it becomes easier - but it's a challenge if you're used to eating without constraint.

 

[pibbur]

Excercise is a relatively minor aspect of weight loss.

No it's not. Physical activity enhances the efficacy of a diet significantly, and is very much recommended. It also increases the probability that you keep your weight afterwards.

What's key is the calorie intake vs burn.

Naturally, it gets harder if you're the sort of person with zero physical activity.

But it's very easy to calculate an approximate calorie need, and simply reduce it by ~500-1000 calories each day. That will give you a healthy and steady weight loss. This can be accomplished without any kind of extra physical activity. Though it's hard to begin with. It takes about a week, before your body adjusts to the lower intake, and perhaps longer for some.

But since excercise is generally the hardest aspect of losing weight for lazy people, I advise not to focus on that. It is a nice addition, which will also keep you fit - naturally, but it really is quite minor in terms of losing weight.

If you're not physically active at all, though, I recommend taking walks, if you're not inclined to run. You burn half as many calories as when running - and you want to walk at least an hour each time. At LEAST 3 time each week. A one-hour brisk walk, will burn ~300 calories. So, it's not that much - but it helps.

Coupled with calorie intake reduction, that's basically it.

The most challenging aspect, really, is keeping the numbers straight in your head. Every single thing you put in your mouth, needs to be calculated precisely. After a while, it becomes easier - but it's a challenge if you're used to eating without constraint.

You don't have to do all those calculations. Notice how much you eat at each meal, and reduce what you eat from there. And focus on what you eat. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

Combined with excercise.

 

[DArtagnan]

No it's not. Physical activity enhances the efficiancy of a diet significantly, and is very much recommended. It also increases the probability that you keep your weight afterwards.

Ehm, no. I'm talking about EXCERCISE. Physical activity is, of course, needed.

I'm not talking about keeping weight, I'm talking about losing weight.

Keeping your weight is simply to balance your intake with what you burn. Excercise has nothing to do with that, unless you make it count that way. That's your choice.

As long as you're reasonably active in your daily life - you can go without excercise entirely. You can't, however, intake more calories than you burn and expect to keep your weight, much less lose it.

It's so simple - I have to wonder why we're arguing about this.

Of course excercise is great, and I would never tell anyone to not excercise if they feel up to it. I'm just saying it's really not a big deal to lose weight without it. I say this, because I know from personal experience how the increased physical activity can be a major obstacle to people trying to lose weight. They see it as a hard challenge, and I think it's sad if they stop themselves because of it.

Basically, I'm trying to put it into perspective.

You don't have to do all those calculations. Notice how much you eat at each meal, and reduce what you eat from there. And focus on what you eat. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

Combined with excercise.

Are you trying to disagree just because?

I'm not telling people what they have to do.

I'm merely saying what works for me, and since I've been extremely successful - I think that speaks for itself.

If you're comfortable not knowing the numbers, that's great. It's been a great help to me, though, which is why I'm giving this advice.

 

[pibbur]

I was talking about losing weight, and keeping the weight afterwards.

Of course it's about energy intake versus energy consumption (possibly also the metabolic effect of different foodstuffs). And of course, you have to adapt the regime to what works best for each person. If it's impossible to get a person to excersise, then by all means go for diet only. And if meticulously counting kJ's work for you, great. But it doesn't have to be that complicated.

FWIW, I am impressed by you losing 30 kg.

But to say that excersize is of minor importance is wrong. There have been a lot of studies of weight loss regimes, and again and again we find that diet combined with excersise in general give significantly better results than diet alone. It is considered and important factor for weight loss. At least as long as we're talking about healthy regimes.

Maybe you were only sharing your experience, and if that's the case I have no issues with what you wrote. But when you say:

"Excercise is a relatively minor aspect of weight loss."

and

"The most challenging aspect, really, is keeping the numbers straight in your head. Every single thing you put in your mouth, needs to be calculated precisely"

I interpreted it as something more that that, that you were saying something like "this is how it is", and not "this is my experience".

 

[fatBastard()]

Exercise is great and all, but if you aren't regularly exercising AND you need to lose 25+ kg of weight then attempting to do so by exercise alone (be it lifting weights or a cardio workout) is a very inefficient way to do it. Yes it CAN be done, but just being able to run long enough to start burning fat is pretty damn hard when you're out of shape and carry too much weight around.

When I was at my peak, I couldn't even walk fast without my shins starting to hurt and when I attempted swimming a couple of mornings a week I had to stop after less than 2 months due to "overdoing" it and it took almost 4 months until I could walk on stairs again. Yes I know it was my own fault for overdoing it, but it really didn't feel like I was overdoing it at the time, but the extra load the excess weight you're trying to lose is putting on your body, means that it is very easy to accidentally overdoing it and putting you on the bench for several weeks at a time. Not something you want to happen when you've finally begun making progress with your exercises.

At any rate, I too was a firm believer that exercise was the key to losing weight but I think that unless you've actually been in a situation where you have to lose 25+ kg of excess weight, it is difficult to imagine how limiting that extra body weight actually is to what you can do.