Shadowrun Returns - Review Roundup #4

[wolfing]

Just finished the game. I'd give it an 8/10. It's enjoyable as it is now. The fact that you can get more stuff later from user-made campaigns (or official campaigns in the form of DLC or whatever) is just icing in the cake.

If you have a backlog of games then sure, play them and wait, you'll probably find it cheaper in Steam's winter sale, but like I said, as it is *right now* it's still very enjoyable and well worth the $20.

 

[DArtagnan]

I simply cannot understand anyone who thinks themselves unbiased. If someone thinks in such a way, they are most likely to be unconscious of how biased they are. Anyone is biased for me and what I should do when communicating is to discern how my bias is different from theirs. Informative reviews tend to show different biases in organized ways, which help me to understand who wrote for whom. Thinking things in a sorted-out way plays to make a bridge between each bias. You might call it unbiased or objective but for me, it's more organized/methodological format of expressing biases.

Which part of "striving for" don't you understand?

Have you ever heard of striving for perfection? It's not something you do because you think you can ever be perfect - but because perfection, as a goal, is the logical extreme you aim for.

 

[DArtagnan]

Not quite finished yet, but I would right now give SR:R about an 8 out of 10.

It's crashed a few times on me, one time the dialog choices wouldn't show up so I had to restart a level, it can stutter if you haven't restarted your computer in awhile (I never understood the games that do that, but NWN2 was the same way) and, while it's not a major issue to me as the game sections aren't long, having some kind of checkpoint halfway through a mission would be nice instead of just an end of map / switching to new map auto-save.

It's not just on this forum, but in many place. I can't help but wonder what games some people would give higher ratings to, and I'd love the chance to tear those apart for them. So easy to feel selective, intelligence, and discerning by being critical of things - but that's now how such activities actually come across.

So, you're saying that people who don't agree that SR is particularly good - actively want to tear it apart?

You find it impossible to imagine that they have their reasons - and the only motivation to give it a low score is actually to accurately reflect their opinion?

Must be very hard to live in a world where people disagree about games every second of every day. How do you even survive?

 

[Merin]

So, you're saying that people who don't agree that SR is particularly good - actively want to tear it apart?

Nope, didn't say that.

You find it impossible to imagine that they have their reasons - and the only motivation to give it a low score is actually to accurately reflect their opinion?

Nope, didn't say that, either.

When I said - "I can't help but wonder what games some people would give higher ratings to, and I'd love the chance to tear those apart for them. So easy to feel selective, intelligence, and discerning by being critical of things - but that's not how such activities actually come across."

- which, again, stated neither of the sentiments you are attempted to attach to me -

I was talking about how it seems so many people just like to criticize and ridicule. That so few actually LIKE anything.

When someone says - "5/5? 9/10? There are some delusional critics out there." - I have to question what THAT person would give a 4/5 or a 9/10 to, and how they'd react to seeing lots of 2/5's and 3/10's for their "great game."

Can someone not like, or hate, SR:R? Of course. I hate GTA games and accept, readily, that people love them.

It'd not disagreement that I question.

It's the way that people only talk about the negatives and never put forth the positives. Not on a given game, but on a forum in general. When it comes to forums most of what I witness are people tearing things apart. Whether I agree or disagree with any given criticism is irrelevant to me.

I want to see some of these really aggressive "that game/movie/book sucks, what is wrong with the people who like it" people list games (or movies or books) they love and watch as people (both those who are like them and love to trash stuff, and those who might not just trash stuff but legitimately hate said games.)

It's a case of my believing that some people, to use an old saw, "love to dish it out but cannot take it."

If you are NOT one of those people, are you brave enough to list some of your favorites games and watch people critique said games in the manner that you've critiques SR:R?

Must be very hard to live in a world where people disagree about games every second of every day. How do you even survive?

Saying that make you feel better about something in your life, did it?

Straw men are so fun to knock down.

 

[rune_74]

This thread is a headache to be honest.

 

[JDR13]

Idk…this might get good.

Sammy, Ghan,.. you guys bring any popcorn?

 

[Roq]

I can't help but wonder what games some people would give higher ratings to, and I'd love the chance to tear those apart for them.

Silent Storm (2003) shows what you can do with turn based combat. An RPG that was able to replicate that standard with modern graphics a decent campaign and the ability to save games would certainly rate 80%++. Let's hope that is what we will get with Wasteland 2 and other turn based games in the pipeline, it's certainly not what SRR is offering.

 

[Branq]

Jesus fucking Christ, it's just a game fellas. It's always the same shit.

Everybody sure is entitled to their own opinion, but around here, I get the feeling that 'haters' and their 'fanboys' want to shove their opinion down my throat. Just like Jehova witnesses at my door on a sunday.

You dislike the game? Sure, go ahead. Write a review. But too many people add sentences like: Never going to spend another dollar on this company -or- wasted 3 hours of my life. That to me sounds like you want your opinion to be acknowledged and have your belly rubbed for hating it.

Had this shizzle with Oblivion (didn't even dare to say I loved the game because haters seem to crucify anyone liking it) and now this again.

I loved the game myself. Love the editor too. 20 bucks well spent. Grats me. If you hated it, too bad mate. Not your cup of tea I guess.

 

[Galaad]

Thanks for that post Branq That sums up my thoughts exactly.

I like this game, and Im having fun, glad I backed it.

As for those who don't like it...Such things happen...heck I can't seem to get into Crusader Kings 2 or Expedition Conquistador for whatever reason...even though its the type of game I normally love.

 

[rune_74]

Was reading the official forums they are working on a custom items and art pack from the community already...lots of neat topics if you want to get into designing a level...

It is very easy to actually get the layout done with dripping water smoke and such...not sure on actually having triggers and such but I think it wouldn't be that hard.

 

[SonOfCapiz]

Designing a level is not that hard from the little poking around I'v done with the editor. Unfortunately, that seems to be all it's really meant for so gameplay tweaks are mostly out of reach. Additional game content can only take me so far if the underlying mechanics themselves are flawed or could be much improved (imho)

 

[Yme]

At least we got something to talk about Finished the game myself now, and like it a fair amount. If I were to attach a score to it I would probably give it 7/10 or something. And I consider my money well spent already, whatever comes from the modding community will be gravy.

 

[crpgnut]

I must have done something wrong somewhere, because I need to hire a team and I'm flat broke. Probably going to have to roll back to the cemetary level and I'm not sure I have the motivation to replay 3 or 4 scenes.

 

[JDR13]

I must have done something wrong somewhere, because I need to hire a team and I'm flat broke. Probably going to have to roll back to the cemetary level and I'm not sure I have the motivation to replay 3 or 4 scenes.

You can't use the option of giving them a percentage of the loot rather than paying them up front?

 

[greywolf00]

I think the % option only comes up once. There's actually 2 tabs of runners,on the off chance you didn't notice already. Unsure if it's unlocked from the beginning or not, didn't notice it myself till halfway through the game. The second tab has several guys for hire at $1,000. It's a good way to save some cash when needed.

 

[rikus]

so how anyone here who played the first fallouts games feels about this one? in the gameplay video it was looking abit of a ripoff(underrail was a candidate for ripping but it didn't have the same feel at all).

 

[rune_74]

Not even close.

 

[DArtagnan]

- which, again, stated neither of the sentiments you are attempted to attach to me -

If so - then why would you LOVE to tear games apart that other people like?

Explain.

I was talking about how it seems so many people just like to criticize and ridicule. That so few actually LIKE anything.

Exactly. You really do think that people enjoy ridiculing and criticising Shadowrun Returns.

So, I ask you again - is it really so hard to imagine that it's not about wanting to bring the game down - but to state honest opinions?

When someone says - "5/5? 9/10? There are some delusional critics out there." - I have to question what THAT person would give a 4/5 or a 9/10 to, and how they'd react to seeing lots of 2/5's and 3/10's for their "great game."

Why do you have to question such a thing?

JDR obviously doesn't agree the game is 5/5 or 9/10. Why does that have to mean he's only got negative things to say about it?

Are you unaware that people like different things to a large variety of degrees?

If you ARE aware - then again, why would you question what THEY like?

Can someone not like, or hate, SR:R? Of course. I hate GTA games and accept, readily, that people love them.

You don't seem to accept it, though. At least, you seem to have a very hard time accepting it - since you would LOVE to tear down games that other people like - and you want to question what they like.

It's the way that people only talk about the negatives and never put forth the positives. Not on a given game, but on a forum in general. When it comes to forums most of what I witness are people tearing things apart. Whether I agree or disagree with any given criticism is irrelevant to me.

Oh, you mean imaginary people. Gotcha.

If you're referring to real people - then it's almost always a matter of opening your eyes. The person you quoted above (JDR) has already said several positive things about Shadowrun Returns. In fact, I think he's been overly generous.

He can't be responsible for your imaginary version that's exclusively negative.

Some people are outspoken and have no issue articulating their dislike for certain aspects of certain games. Sometimes, they don't bring up the positives - and maybe that's because the negatives weigh more for them.

Why is it a problem for you?

I want to see some of these really aggressive "that game/movie/book sucks, what is wrong with the people who like it" people list games (or movies or books) they love and watch as people (both those who are like them and love to trash stuff, and those who might not just trash stuff but legitimately hate said games.)

Why would you love to do that?

Aren't you admitting that you're emotionally invested in what other people think of things you enjoy?

Because that's a weak position - and my advice is to seek solace in your own position and reasons for it - and don't let differing opinions and ways of stating them get to you.

If your own opinion is based on something solid - and you know why you like what you like - then other opinions shouldn't affect you.

If they DO affect you, then maybe people have a point? Isn't it valuable to hear them out in that case?

It's a case of my believing that some people, to use an old saw, "love to dish it out but cannot take it."

Like you can't take negative opinions about games you like?

Yeah, I see that.

In my case - I'm actually not affected by negative opinions about things I like.

That's because I'm very, very comfortable with my own reasons for liking things.

Sure, it CAN be a bit depressing if you've just discovered a wonderful game and you HAVEN'T experienced the downsides (or noticed them) - but if you really can't handle negative opinions about such a game - then I think it's MUCH more appropriate to just stay away from public forums dedicated to the sharing of opinions.

At least, I think that's what a smart person would do.

A whiny person would start complaining that people are negative and how they'd love to tear games THEY like apart.

If you are NOT one of those people, are you brave enough to list some of your favorites games and watch people critique said games in the manner that you've critiques SR:R?

Brave? Are you kidding me? We must have very different ideas about what bravery is.

But if you'd enjoy bashing something I love - then here you go:

System Shock
BioForge
Pool of Radiance
Skyrim
Bioshock Infinite
Deus Ex
Vampire: Bloodlines
Knights of the Old Republic
The Secret World

Saying that make you feel better about something in your life, did it?

Speaking my mind always makes me feel better - if only slightly so.

Straw men are so fun to knock down.

This is relevant, because? Oh, you're still not admitting you have a problem with the opinions of other people?

Oh, only when they're negative, right?

What straw man are you trying to knock down? Because it's not working.

 

[DArtagnan]

so how anyone here who played the first fallouts games feels about this one? in the gameplay video it was looking abit of a ripoff(underrail was a candidate for ripping but it didn't have the same feel at all).

Take out 99% of the exploration and interactivity, simplify and streamline the mechanics, take out most of the C&C, take out the loot, make it 100% linear, make it shorter and you'll get something like Shadowrun Returns.

 

[JonNik]

I gotta say I agree with the people bemoaning the lost chance for something better here.

The simplicity and linearity of the game is simply jarring. Didn't expect something that lite tbh when backing (for just 30$ granted). This might well be a very good and enjoyable story driven game but for now it completely failed to grab me.

Getting a usable robust editor out is admirable but of little interest to me at this point. I don't really care that much for UGC unless it improves an already good and interesting base game. Even then I am more interested in game balances and graphic improvements rather than quests and story. Nehrim quality mods are few and far between I believe…

I am particularly disappointed from what I read somewhere in this thread that adding skills and complexity is not really easy or supported in the editor ? If so then there goes that hope…

Not even bothering to create a valid save system for such a simple linear and straightforward game is really the icing on this cake…

Kinda regretting backing this one. I would have bought it eventually no doubt but it would
probably have been at a 50% off from Steam and would have called it a fair bargain then…

Just my 2c…

P.S atmosphere is pretty good though I have to admit, and that is always a plus for me.