Shenmue 3 - Part 1 and 2 Remakes

[JDR13]

I find it hard to accept that a game, that truly uses 3D to create a 3D effect shouldn't be true 3D.

Your definition of "true" actually seems to be "complete", which I could have agreed to, but is a) black/white logic and b) still not the case today. There are still 2D techniques in use to create or support a 3D appearence. So we're discussing the point when it's enough 3D to call it "true" 3D? What was the beginning of that discussion? We spoke about 3D open world and I think in this context Vindicator was still correct with his mention of UU.

UU doesn't truly use 3D. That's the part you seem to have a hard time understanding. It might have texture mapped walls and ceilings, but the characters and objects don't have real 3D models. It has 3D rooms with a bunch of 2D sprites walking around in them.

I'm talking about a fully 3D game using a 3D engine, which UU is not. You're talking about 3D "effects" which was obvious from the start of this discussion. Creating the perception of 3D doesn't make something fully 3D. UU is a mostly 2D game, that's all I'm saying, and that's what I've been saying from the beginning.

 

[Vindicator]

UU doesn't truly use 3D.

Yes, it does… true-3D environments with 2D sprites. That doesn't make it 2.5D, a term used for games like Wolfenstein 3D.

Creating the perception of 3D doesn't make something fully 3D. UU is a mostly 2D game…

No, UU is mostly a 3D game. Yes, it is not fully-3D, but I never said it was…
I said it was true-3D. All games create the perception of 3D, and virtually no game is fully-3D… If nothing else, there is a 2D HUD or 2D sprites are added to the walls as bullet damage.

 

[JDR13]

Yes, it does… true-3D environments with 2D sprites. That doesn't make it 2.5D, a term used for games like Wolfenstein 3D.

If by "environments" you mean walls and ceilings, sure. Tell me, what else is 3D?

And 2.5D is not a term used for games like Wolfenstein, it's used for games like System Shock and Duke Nukem 3D. The Build engine used in Duke 3D is more advanced than UU, and yet few people would try to claim that's real 3D.

No, UU is mostly a 3D game. Yes, it is not fully-3D, but I never said it was…
I said it was true-3D. All games create the perception of 3D, and virtually no game is fully-3D… If nothing else, there is a 2D HUD or 2D sprites are added to the walls as bullet damage.

You can believe what you'd like. I'm obviously not going to change your mind about that. I don't think simply having a 3D space because of walls and ceilings makes a game mostly 3D when every single character, creature, etc, in the game is 2D.

 

[Lucky Day]

If by "environments" you mean walls and ceilings, sure. Tell me, what else is 3D?

And 2.5D is not a term used for games like Wolfenstein, it's used for games like System Shock and Duke Nukem 3D. The Build engine used in Duke 3D is more advanced than UU, and yet few people would try to claim that's real 3D.

There is no set meaning for the term "2.5D". People have used this term for a number of things that wasn't so called "3D" rendering. There was a time when games like Wizardry were called 3D.

Keep in mind that even with the best graphics card and VR goggles, you are still watching a flat monitor.

 

[JDR13]

There is no set meaning for the term "2.5D". People have used this term for a number of things that wasn't so called "3D" rendering. There was a time when games like Wizardry were called 3D.

Keep in mind that even with the best graphics card and VR goggles, you are still watching a flat monitor.

I can agree with that, and to be fair, I should have worded it differently. To me, a game isn't really 3D if most of the objects and characters you're interacting with are 2D and the game can be run without any hardware acceleration. In hindsight, perhaps I should have said 3D accelerated.

 

[Vindicator]

In hindsight, perhaps I should have said 3D accelerated.

Yeah, that would've helped. Nevertheless, games can still be fully and truly real-time 3D (environment and models) without being 3D accelerated, and we had those back in the 80's, but most were flight sims.

Now back to the thread topic… Shenmue would fit your definition since it was fully-3D and 3D accelerated on the Dreamcast.

 

[bjon045]

I got them both on Dreamcast but never played them apart from about 10 minutes of the first one. I never could figure out how to even do a fighting move.

 

[JDR13]

Nevertheless, games can still be fully and truly real-time 3D (environment and models) without being 3D accelerated, and we had those back in the 80's, but most were flight sims.

I'd be curious to see one of those as I don't recall any games being fully 3D prior to Quake. I never paid much attention to flight sims though.

Regarding Shenmue 1&2 remakes, I'm not sure I could see them being a worthwhile endeavor for the publisher. I imagine they would probably just be straight ports with a higher resolution. I'm pretty sure they could be played just as well on a Dreamcast emulator.

 

[Vindicator]

I'd be curious to see one of those as I don't recall any games being fully 3D prior to Quake. I never paid much attention to flight sims though.

One of my all time favorites was Stunt Island from 1992. It was more than a flight sim; You would do stunts (like landing on a bridge) with dozens of aircraft and record and edit them into videos. While it didn't use textured polygons, it was one of the first sims to use Gouraud shading and one of the first sandbox games.

Probably the first ever fully-3D game was Battlezone, an arcade game from 1980… but it was wireframe only.

Regarding Shenmue 1&2 remakes, I'm not sure I could see them being a worthwhile endeavor for the publisher…

Yeah, I'd like to play them again, but they need to do more than just up the resolution. Hi-res textures would make it a must-buy for me.

 

[JDR13]

Probably the first ever fully-3D game was Battlezone, an arcade game from 1980… but it was wireframe only.

We definitely have very different concepts of what fully-3D is.

 

[Vindicator]

We definitely have very different concepts of what fully-3D is.

Well, it might look like crap today, but Battlezone was state-of-the-art in 1980.
OK, compared to PacMan, it looked and played like crap in 1980 too.
I seem to remember playing a stereoscopic VR version of Battlezone in an arcade back then.

 

[JDR13]

Well, it might look like crap today, but Battlezone was state-of-the-art in 1980.
OK, compared to PacMan, it looked and played like crap in 1980 too.
I seem to remember playing a stereoscopic VR version of Battlezone in an arcade back then.

I recall the Star Wars arcade game that had a similar graphics style. Remember navigating the Death Star trenches in that one? It was great for its time.