Skyrim - Now Supports Paid Mods

Never knew that about you, Figment - thank you!

NVSE/SKSE are another backend tool with which most of these mods would never even exist. As well as Elminster's TOSEDIT.

It's just slimy all-around. With all the backlash, I desperately hope this pilot program gets revamped into a donation system... one where Valve doesn't take 75%.
 
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As a modder, I'm really… god this is awful.

People, you really, really, really don't understand the kind of destructive and chilling effect this will have on the modding community

It's not as simple as "well if you don't like it, don't buy it" or "There are still free mods" or "but there are some mods worth paying for".

Neither is it about modders/mod users simply not wanting to pay cash.

The thing that a lot of people seem to forget is that there is a lot of collaboration and usage of other user's resources that go on in the modding community. A lot of people are willing to allow their resources etc. to be used for other mods for not much more than an acknowledgement in the credits or a request for permission.

Put money… actually cash money into the equation and what do you get? Coupled with Valve's atrocious customer service system for Steam?

You get paywalls established, you get conflicts between modders regarding who owns what or who should pay what, you get resources locked off from the rest of the community because the creators may either be fearful of others profiting off of their work or simply because they will only let others use them if they get a cut of the profits, you get collaborations dying in their infancy because of divisions between modders on if or how they seek a profit, you get unscrupulous "mod creators" skimming other people's work and repurposing them for their own, you get mires of copyright, you get…

You get any of the multitudes of issues that arise in any creative industry that involves paying for products. But the modding community *depends* on collaboration and a healthy, clean community that encourages collaboration. God knows there is enough drama that goes on in modding communities, introduce money? And these conflicts expand a thousandfold and *cripple* creativity and goodwill in the community.

I see some of the above posters mention that there are mods worth money, like Falskaar or Nehrim etc. But these mods rely upon not only using the resources of other modders, but rely upon drawing talented and passionate modders from the community and enabling team cohesion in order to achieve a shared goal. Money would not enhance or encourage these types of mods, but inhibit them due to, for example, people becoming nervous about getting involved in mods that need to paid for, as well as the aforementioned resources only being locked off because the modder in question would not want others to profit off of their work, or even that they would seek a cut of the profits (rightly in my opinion) in order to use their work, or would only allow their work to be used at all if there was a profit factor involved etc.

And remember, there are already systems in place that allow someone to support a mod creator without establishing a destructive paywall, called donations. But simply setting up a donation scheme in the Workshop wouldn't work for Valve/Bethesda because they couldn't justify skimming the money off of the mod creators (remember, a majority of the profits don't even make it to the modders).

And to even think of the conflicts that would arise from people deciding who gets what percentage of the profits *shivers*… modding is a hobby, throw money in the situation and you cast a chilling effect upon the community.

And the only people who profit out of this state of affairs are Valve/the developer in question, and that's in short term, might I add. In the long term it cripples the modding community

And at what cost? I can even begin to explain how angry I feel at Bethesda leveraging the incredible modding community of their games, the one that increases the longevity and value of their products, in order to turn a quick bloody dollar. FOR SHAME.

But I can at least appreciate Valve/Bethesda's willingness to engage with and discuss this with the community, giving them a headsup regarding these changes and obtaining feedback before enabling these changes-

Oh wait, Whoops, they did the exact opposite, and dropped the thing on us unexpectedly, without even bothering to consult to their incredibly vibrant community. Really feeling the love here Bethesda/Valve.

So to top it off, this is a ridiculous, ill-thought out change that will have long term consequences for the modding community at large (don't think other companies won't jump to adopt this), a majority of which will be negative. I hope to high heavens that they reverse this decision but I'm not incredibly hopeful on this front, Valve is anything if not obtuse.

I was actually having a debate with myself as to whether or not I should grab Steam versions for certain games or non-DRM ones, I gotta thank Valve for helping me make my decision for me.

PS: Apologies for the length
 
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So now companies will be able to release unfinished/unpolished games and then monetize on the modding community that fixes/expand their games?
This is a horrible idea. Not only that, but the modder will have to share the income from the mod not only with the developer but also with Steam.
What worries me even more is that if this works they can add in the future an in-game store for mods and only ¨sanctioned¨mods can be bought and installed. Of course this would require an always-online function to check that you don`t have any unpaid mod installed.
 
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Yes after this announcement I can see mods for future titles being exclusively available through the companies desired revenue generator, ie support for free mods won't exist.

Update on teh profit sharing as per posts on Beth forums, seems it's 25% to the modder once the mod has generated US$400+ in sales. 45% to Bethesda, 30% to Valve.

I don't really get how it's going to work for big mods without people getting shafted/PO'd. I mean so many mods rely on collaboration with other mod resources. Already one has been taken down because it used an animation from another user who didn't want it use in a paid mod or something like that.

As I said on the Beth forum, add me to the list of the disappointed.


-kaos
 
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Have to say I agree with what Matin Sanguine posted above. This is a PR blunder as I just read a few mods will now be updated, and you will have to pay for the new version.

Luckily some modders will use a pay want you want option, and will still release a free version. I'm curious as to how many more good mods will switch to pay only?o_O
 
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This is awful. It is a legal clustercuss in waiting. Matin touched on some of the issues, but good god almighty is this poorly thought out by Valve. Some questions:

- How is compensation handled technically in a collaborative project? Is money sent only to the account owner? How do contributors get compensated? What if contributors stop contributing to a project? How does compensation change? Is there a standard contract? Are there any contracts other than agreements between Valve, the publisher, and the account owner?

- How are disputes handled? Is there a process or arbitration? Given the cross pollination, reuse, and sheer volume of modder resources, what happens when a dispute comes up involving someone else's IP?

- How in the hell is IP handled now? Do modders retain ownership of their art? If they don't, when does the publisher become liable for copyright violations for a derivative work? Are there licensing arrangements in place? What about courts? What about international copyright law and differing standards in what constitutes a derivative work?

- If a modder's work is in legal dispute is there a process to handle, at least under the U.S. DMCA, a takedown notice? How does Valve intend to comply with that? How about the publisher?

- Oh. This is income now too, so there are tax implications for all the contributors to a mod as well.

Thanks Valve. Thanks Bethesda. You fucked up a happy informal arrangement to gain further revenue and created a hell of a lot of business and legal confusion. This is no judgment on the merits of good modders getting compensated for their work. It's an expression of flabbergasted shock at how poorly they thought this through and how much goodwill they're going to burn through before this settles out at a much much lower volume of mods. Well done idiots. Well done.
 
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Yikes!

I usually get my mods from the Nexus and don't really intend to pay for mods (even with the 24h money back gurantee). There might be a few rare exceptions to my rule like paying a few bucks for Enderal. A new sword? Never!
 
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Now that I ponder it, I could see a launch for paid mods working far better for a future game rather than one with hundreds of thousands of preexisting mods with myriad cross dependencies.

I read through the FAQ and it does address a number of concerns including the DMCA takedown process. It also addresses contributor portions, though I'm still confused about how that's handled in practice.
 
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Exactly this! They simply want to make money off the back of modders.

I am not saying this is completely a bad thing since some modders deserves some cash for their works but in the long run I am not sure this is a good think for modding in general.
And they did. Good modders got hired by game companies or start their own.

Unpaid/low paid apprenticeship exists in all parts of job world, modding is that or people doing it out of passion and not for money. It should stay that way.

Oh and people that defended Steam for years, go **** yourselves.
I am switching to GoG now. If GoG does not have the game I want, I am pirating it.
 
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I have nothing against paid mods. Through donations or something, doesn't matter, someone worked there.

But Valve taking seventy five percent? That is rediculous.
Imagine your country charging you 75% VAT, would you really accept that without a single word? Are we rolling back into slavery?

I refuse to support that thing coming from a greedy company.
Shame on you Valve!

Yes, I have to take back my original tangentially positive response, I had assumed the 25% was the intermediary's cut. That is a huge rip-off, I'd far prefer to donate directly to modders who allow that.
 
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I'm beginning to see this as a cash grab as well. Zenimax must have lost millions betting on ESO being the "next big thing" and this is a desperate attempt to generate revenue until Bethesda can release another game. Hopefully litigation against Valve and Bethesda will force them to drop this idea. The problem with that is it takes someone with deep pockets to go to court against the big boys.

Do we have any corporate lawyers around? I'd love to get Desslock's take on this.
 
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Players should demand the same thing that Valve + Bethesda demands from modders. Steam users should demand that for every game + any price they will keep 75% of the price and pay only 25% to Valve. What do you say, Valve? Its fair trade, isnt it? I wonder how Valve would react if plenty of ppl would demand it under flag of "new fair trade Steam policy". :)
Guys and ladies, if you are active on social media, try to suggest it there, put there link to this topic or other forums and lets see… :)

Also we should remind them about the whole problem that Matin Sanguine described very well.
 
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Another problem? Modders will have to pay to copywrite stuff if they want to sue for infringement. I don't believe copywrites are free, but could be wrong.
 
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Well I sure hope the paid mods get pirated to death.

I don't know I feel dirty for having bought skyrim now.......
 
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The One Ring was put too much years in Bethesda´s finger. Time to throw them to lava pit.
 
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Another problem? Modders will have to pay to copywrite stuff if they want to sue for infringement. I don't believe copywrites are free, but could be wrong.

Copyright, at least in the US, has changed to an informal system. Your work has copyright protection automatically at the time of creation. This has been the case since the US signed on to the Berne Convention in 1989. Registration merely provides a paper trail in case you decide to pursue legal action.
 
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