Star Citizen - $500,000,000 raised

[Ivanwah]

I've read about people paying thousands of dollars for a single ship in this game. Don't know how true that is, but wouldn't that be pay to win?

 

[Ripper]

I've read about people paying thousands of dollars for a single ship in this game. Don't know how true that is, but wouldn't that be pay to win?

I think that's more or less the idea. I see it as sort of the Scientology of the gaming world, at this point.

 

[redman5427]

A couple of months ago I saw it on my brothers computer, who subbed so long ago he doesn't remember. It is a highly immersive simulation but after we put hours into it and reading tips on the web on everything, to me it was not fun but that's just me.

I think 20 years ago I would have had the patience for this game, but the situation reminds me of Derek Smart somehow. At a certain point I just had to throw up my hands.

 

[largh]

Crazy stuff indeed. Hard to believe how some can be so successful in marketing.

If ever finished, these could be cool games, though. They should focus on one stellar system instead of trying to do everything. At least they got the budget for the development unless this whole thing is a scam.

 

[Stingray]

At least they got the budget for the development unless this whole thing is a scam.

By all accounts, virtually all of the money raised is already spent, and obviously, the game still isn't anywhere near complete. So maybe it's a nitpick, but technically they don't have the budget for development. They're needing/hoping to continue raising a lot more money in the future - although to be fair, it seems safe enough to assume that'll happen. This whole project has proven to be a fairly effective mechanism for separating people from money that they apparently didn't need very badly.

 

[Redglyph]

Seriously, they've already spent everything?
Though with so many people that must go down the drain pretty quickly. Such a monster "organization" must be completely inefficient too.

 

[Pladio]

If you have 500 devs full time on this at probably around $100k p.a. that's $50m just on dev salaries per year. If this has any other people on top of that you're hitting $75m a year. You burn through $500m quite quickly at this pace.

 

[Redglyph]

Then there's the yacht...

 

[DArtagnan]

The whole cult-theory aside - another weakness of this supposed scheme is their transparent financials available for people who want to see them.

So, you don't really need to guess or do the whole conspiracy theory brainstorm.

Cloud Imperium Financials for 2020

CIG's Chief Financial Officer Presents Our Accounting for the 2020 Financial Year

cloudimperiumgames.com

From 2012 to 2017

Cloud Imperium Financials from 2012 to 2017

In a further effort at transparency we have decided to publish our historical financials from 2012 through 2017, this allows you to see not only how much mone...

cloudimperiumgames.com

Official data:

CLOUD IMPERIUM UK LTD. filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

CLOUD IMPERIUM UK LTD. - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

They're openly spending millions on hiring talent and they even leased a huge new building for 10 years.

Since they weren't obligated to go into detail about these things, one might argue that's a pretty dumb way to run a money-driven cult.

As for "thousands of dollars for ships" - that's called a pledge. You don't actually buy the ship, you pledge your support for the game and you get a token ship (that's how I see it, anyway), like you would get a t-shirt or whatever else in any crowd-funding campaign.

The way "power" works in Star Citizen is not really about the size of your ship, as you need to have very expensive crews to run the big ships (or players willing to take those roles without pay) - and, most of all, you need to pay for decent quality of equipment - or the ship itself will be all but useless.

You don't magically win because you "buy" a big ship - just like in real life you wouldn't win much by buying an empty aircraft carrier. I mean, what do you hope to win?

Why people pledge that much money is another question, and I can't answer for how people think and operate. I know some people have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for stuff in games like Diablo Immortal - which I consider an indisputable scheme, as opposed to what I think of Star Citizen.

I spent exactly 40 dollars for my pledge package long ago - and that included both Star Citizen and Squadron 42.

Based on my time in the alpha - that money is one of the best investments I've ever made in gaming - based on hours and the amount of fun involved.

As I said, I fully understand the skepticism surrounding the project.

If I hadn't followed it and if I didn't believe it was actually happening - I would also be extremely (and I do mean extremely) skeptical.

Also, it's fun to speculate and join in conspiracy theories - and I wouldn't begrudge anyone for doing so.

There's certainly no guarantee this game will ever come out - or that it will be any fun if it does.

I most definitely wouldn't recommend this to the average player - and it's not meant to be a casual game.

It's very much supposed to be a space *simulator* (more like a life in space simulator) - and I don't think you can really enjoy it as any kind of quick fix.

You really need to want to invest yourself and immerse yourself.

That's the whole point of the thing.

Also, unless you care about the tech and want an early look at cool stuff - stay FAR away from the alpha. It will only spoil things later on.

I would advise people to just wait X amount of years and see if this mammoth of a thing ever amounts to anything - and then enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Pladio]

As you said, I doubt this game is for me, and I doubt it's a scam too.
I do think that they overpromised without understanding what they were getting themselves into and as such got a lot of bad rep.
Whether they'll be able to deliver on (most of ) their promises is a question I cannot answer.

I understand why people feel cheated though. If you're promised something in 2 years time and it takes 3 years, you can say that's fine, but when it takes 12 and it's still not done then that promise was false. So all in all, I don't think it's a scam as there is progress and they're still working on this beast of a project, but their initial plan was bonkers.

 

[DArtagnan]

As you said, I doubt this game is for me, and I doubt it's a scam too.
I do think that they overpromised without understanding what they were getting themselves into and as such got a lot of bad rep.
Whether they'll be able to deliver on (most of ) their promises is a question I cannot answer.

I understand why people feel cheated though. If you're promised something in 2 years time and it takes 3 years, you can say that's fine, but when it takes 12 and it's still not done then that promise was false. So all in all, I don't think it's a scam as there is progress and they're still working on this beast of a project, but their initial plan was bonkers.

Well, that's not exactly what happened.

What happened was that the initial scope was changed because that's what the backers voted to do.

The campaign was so wildly successful that CIG couldn't match the support.

You should have seen their initial stretch goals - as they just kept growing as the millions of support came in.

That became unwieldy, and so they took an official vote which went something like this (paraphrasing):

"Do you want us to stick with the original plan or expand the game and keep the funding alive?"

IIRC, more than 80% of the backers voted to keep funding and expanding. I was one of them

There's this misconception of "feature creep" - which is not entirely accurate.

I would call it a scope-explosion, based on an unprecedented amount of support.

As Erin Roberts put it - CIG considered it an insult to take (at the time) 100M USD in support and then not deliver a game that made use of those millions.

I mean, imagine them delivering only on the original scope - which is essentially a fancy Wing Commander and Freelancer, which could have been made for 10 times less than what was pledged.

Obviously, for the backers who did NOT vote to keep expanding - I can understand the disappointment.

I also have to say, in all fairness, that CIG are TERRIBLE at predicting release dates.

But they're also in the unique position of having to predict release dates constantly - as per the open development "contract" with the backers.

There's a reason most huge games don't talk about development until it's "nearly" done.

Even with that said, one must consider that even if they do SUCK at estimating release dates - they actually have delivered on countless promises and tech deliveries - it's just that the vast majority of those have been late - and some very late.

Is that a scheme or ill will? Could be - but I don't personally think so.

 

[DArtagnan]

Oops, this is taking way too much of my time.

Guess that's a sign

 

[Irian]

The question is simply: Will the game be that revolutionary that it actually justifies the 500 million dollars? Or will it be "just" another game that another less crazy company could have produced much cheaper by not wasting time with a lot of half-baked feature ideas that add absolutely nothing of value - features of which 90% will probably not even end up in the game? I simply do not believe this can end as anything else than the biggest disappointment in gaming history.

And yes, that's what the gamers wanted, but there's a good reason why in sane development companies you do not start doing what the customer wants, you do a lot of discussion to find out what the customer needs and what can be delivered in a sane time frame. Further iterations can then add more "nice to haves".

 

[DArtagnan]

The question is simply: Will the game be that revolutionary that it actually justifies the 500 million dollars? Or will it be "just" another game that another less crazy company could have produced much cheaper by not wasting time with a lot of half-baked feature ideas that add absolutely nothing of value - features of which 90% will probably not even end up in the game? I simply do not believe this can end as anything else than the biggest disappointment in gaming history.

And yes, that's what the gamers wanted, but there's a good reason why in sane development companies you do not start doing what the customer wants, you do a lot of discussion to find out what the customer needs and what can be delivered in a sane time frame. Further iterations can then add more "nice to haves".

Star Citizen isn't "what gamers" want - it's 100% the vision of Chris Roberts.

However, that does happen to coincide with what most of the backers originally wanted to support. I was certainly on-board - and very much still am on-board.

But the glacial progress and seemingly endless development cycle have soured the milk for SOME of the backers - and I can understand that.

It doesn't matter if it's a disappointment, really. I think what matters is if the game really does become "the best damned space sim ever" - as is the goal.

Both can be true at the same time, depending on how realistic you are

If the game is 5% of the intended design and actually playable - I think it stands a very good chance of holding that title for many years to come

But we'll see. First we need to have it released....

 

[SirJames]

I spent exactly 40 dollars for my pledge package long ago - and that included both Star Citizen and Squadron 42.

Based on my time in the alpha - that money is one of the best investments I've ever made in gaming - based on hours and the amount of fun involved.

*cough*

What, I didn't say anything!

 

[lackblogger]

The Reverend Roberts is a fine and upstanding preacher. He offers Hope. And Love. An offer of better things to come in the Afterlife once we have finished with our Mortal Coil.

An offer of a better world awaits those who Pledge themselves to the Unwavering Devotion of the Immaculate Vision.

A world of Eden, a Paradise on Earth. Where We can be unburdened by the shackles of Man. Where we can be free to Roam. And Roam. And Roam. And Roam.

So sayeth the Lord.

Amen.

The collection box will now pass among you.

 

[Ivanwah]

Well, I hope they refunded everyone who didn't want the game to be expanded. It doesn't feel right to me that whether people get what they pledged for is down to a vote.

Anyway, it will surely be the most detailed space sim ever. Does that mean it will be the best or fun? I don't know. For me what Elite Dangerous does is more than enough, detail-wise. If someone made a Freelancer inspired game with on-foot exploration of planets, that would be perfect for me.

 

[Irian]

It doesn't matter if it's a disappointment, really. I think what matters is if the game really does become "the best damned space sim ever" - as is the goal.

Actually, it does. Even if it becomes "the best damned space sim ever" (should it ever be released), the question will always be... What would an actually competently lead studio been able to do with the same amount of amount? At this point, it's pretty clear that a lot of money was simply "burned" and will never add anything of value to the game itself.

 

[JDR13]

I'm pretty sure all studios burn money in one way or another. There was just more to be burned here.

 

[Carnifex]

I wrote off this money personally years ago, and simply chalked it up to a huge lesson learned. And you better believe it well informed me on gambling with kick starter projects ever again, at least gaming ones. I've had far more fortune in supporting people doing books, art projects, ect.