A fantastic series.. one of my all-time favorites in fact. The Second Chronicles are just as good.
Top 10 RPG Cliches @ WatchMojo
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A fantastic series.. one of my all-time favorites in fact. The Second Chronicles are just as good.
Kordanor
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I also don't really see the point of this video, and not even why it carries the headline of "cliches". Because a lot of those these aren't actually cliches.
From Wikipedia:
A cliché or cliche (/ˈkliːʃeɪ/ or /klɪˈʃeɪ/) is an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has become overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect, even to the point of being trite or irritating, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel.
10 - Big Inventory. Most games use it. Some games don't. Tons of different methods around. Not a cliche and not a stupid mechanic either.
Doesn't mean that some games don't push it over the top. But these are, as shown, console games.
09 - Classes. Well…lots of games use them, lots of games don't. Again, different attempts. If classes are implemented they usually make sense. Not a cliche, and not a stupid mechanic. Again, as shown in the video, maybe overused in console games.
08 - Heroes get away with anything. True for some games…not true for others. I think in most PC games the bad things you can do either have something attached to them like a steal mechanic, or if you kill a friendly you are attacked by guards. Or you are unable to kill friendly NPCs alltogether. But out of the first three things, I can see a problem here the most.
07 - Destroyed hometown? Never thought about that and never really encountered it I guess. The only exception would be all the Fallout games, because you start in the shelter…but that's kinda the point of the whole series, to go out into the world.
06 - Repetitive NPCs. Ok, yeah, I can see that. It's used in a lot of Games and is quite stupid. Can still hear "You know, if you have the aptitude, you should join the Mage's College in Winterhold." That's actually something games could improve on.
05 - Rats, Bats, Spiders & Skeletons. Used often indeed. But don't see anything bad about it as long as you don't start off your adventure by killing like 20 rats first. But these times are gone for quite a while, at least on the PC I'd say.
04 - Magic Macguffins. I actually don't think that this one is used very often anymore. If it is used though, it is mostly indeed very stupid (Lords of Xulima). Maybe also mostly a console thing?
03 - Amnesiac Characters. Well, Planescape torment is an unfair example as the whole game is centered around it. The single other game I can thing about it which used it was Divinity: OS. But besides of that…
I would hardly call that widely used. And it is hardly used as a cheap way to introduce you to a world. At least not these days, and at least not on the PC.
02 - Chosen one. Yeah, that one is very true and is actually getting on my nerves. But this is also because I hate large scale stories where you need to fight something like gods or something abstract like "the void". If games would stick to "to the ground" stories, they would also not need a "chosen one".
01 - Nobody is able to do anything. Like the chosen one, also very true and imho another thing I'd call bad writing. There are much, much better stories to tell then to let the hero do some minor tasks for some NPC. It's especially stupid if it's coupled with "the chosen one". And of course MMOs rely on this as these just need tons of quests. The example of Witcher however was kinda bad imho. The Witcher is a mercenary and he will do anything for Gold.
Honorable Mentions:
Oversized Weapons: Console
Skimpy Armor: Mostly Console
Magic Stomach Syndrome: Very true. But I think most newer games, which aren't Hack n Slay actually go for a realistic loot system.
So in the end…there were like 3-4 Things which are actually used more often than they should.
All the other things…either irrelevant, or hardly existent on the PC (excluding Asia/ Console imports)
From Wikipedia:
A cliché or cliche (/ˈkliːʃeɪ/ or /klɪˈʃeɪ/) is an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has become overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect, even to the point of being trite or irritating, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel.
10 - Big Inventory. Most games use it. Some games don't. Tons of different methods around. Not a cliche and not a stupid mechanic either.
Doesn't mean that some games don't push it over the top. But these are, as shown, console games.
09 - Classes. Well…lots of games use them, lots of games don't. Again, different attempts. If classes are implemented they usually make sense. Not a cliche, and not a stupid mechanic. Again, as shown in the video, maybe overused in console games.
08 - Heroes get away with anything. True for some games…not true for others. I think in most PC games the bad things you can do either have something attached to them like a steal mechanic, or if you kill a friendly you are attacked by guards. Or you are unable to kill friendly NPCs alltogether. But out of the first three things, I can see a problem here the most.
07 - Destroyed hometown? Never thought about that and never really encountered it I guess. The only exception would be all the Fallout games, because you start in the shelter…but that's kinda the point of the whole series, to go out into the world.
06 - Repetitive NPCs. Ok, yeah, I can see that. It's used in a lot of Games and is quite stupid. Can still hear "You know, if you have the aptitude, you should join the Mage's College in Winterhold." That's actually something games could improve on.
05 - Rats, Bats, Spiders & Skeletons. Used often indeed. But don't see anything bad about it as long as you don't start off your adventure by killing like 20 rats first. But these times are gone for quite a while, at least on the PC I'd say.
04 - Magic Macguffins. I actually don't think that this one is used very often anymore. If it is used though, it is mostly indeed very stupid (Lords of Xulima). Maybe also mostly a console thing?
03 - Amnesiac Characters. Well, Planescape torment is an unfair example as the whole game is centered around it. The single other game I can thing about it which used it was Divinity: OS. But besides of that…
I would hardly call that widely used. And it is hardly used as a cheap way to introduce you to a world. At least not these days, and at least not on the PC.
02 - Chosen one. Yeah, that one is very true and is actually getting on my nerves. But this is also because I hate large scale stories where you need to fight something like gods or something abstract like "the void". If games would stick to "to the ground" stories, they would also not need a "chosen one".
01 - Nobody is able to do anything. Like the chosen one, also very true and imho another thing I'd call bad writing. There are much, much better stories to tell then to let the hero do some minor tasks for some NPC. It's especially stupid if it's coupled with "the chosen one". And of course MMOs rely on this as these just need tons of quests. The example of Witcher however was kinda bad imho. The Witcher is a mercenary and he will do anything for Gold.
Honorable Mentions:
Oversized Weapons: Console
Skimpy Armor: Mostly Console
Magic Stomach Syndrome: Very true. But I think most newer games, which aren't Hack n Slay actually go for a realistic loot system.
So in the end…there were like 3-4 Things which are actually used more often than they should.
All the other things…either irrelevant, or hardly existent on the PC (excluding Asia/ Console imports)
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Zloth
I smell a... wumpus!?
Amnesia... hmm... I don't think that's always a bad thing. As the video says, it can be a good excuse for explaining to the character just what country they are in without really awkward dialog. I find self-inflicted amnesia to be the best because you're not only wondering what happened before but you're also wondering if you really want to know!
Amnesia gets bad when it gets to be a writing crutch. "You know, my amnesia just cleared up a bit and suddenly I understand why such & such is happening." Yeah, more like the writers wrote themselves into a corner. (Though that can be used against me by having the character seem to remember something only to find out something else entirely has happened. That can be great fun!)
P.S. The 'destroy the village' thing is as old as the hills. It gives the main character a reason not to stay home and work like normal people.
Amnesia gets bad when it gets to be a writing crutch. "You know, my amnesia just cleared up a bit and suddenly I understand why such & such is happening." Yeah, more like the writers wrote themselves into a corner. (Though that can be used against me by having the character seem to remember something only to find out something else entirely has happened. That can be great fun!)
P.S. The 'destroy the village' thing is as old as the hills. It gives the main character a reason not to stay home and work like normal people.
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Ah Shogun! First book I attempted to read while learning English. It didn't end up well…
But maybe you picked up a little Japanese.
Good book, though. And Tai Pan. Currently listening to the Gai Jin audiobook. Not as good as those other two.
Thanks for the book recommendations, folks. Always on the lookout for decent fantasy and science fiction. There's always so much crap in both genres. Going to check out Daughter of the Empire and Lord Foul's Bane.
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That's just because it's only standard for TES. It would be like saying "you always start in a shelter" in Fallout. Which you only do in two of them, but anyway...
lackblogger
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You start as a prisoner in Balder's Gate 2 and Beyond Divinity, for what it's worth. It's more a matter of the issue that the heroes need to start out weak and relatively helpless and have some form of motivation to get out there and start adventuring and is a format that is familiar to American Super Heroes and most Adventure novels as well. The prison break is just one sub-category of such a scenario.
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Kordanor
Wastelander
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Yeah, I'd say that Prisonbreak is indeed used extremely often. More than it probably should.
Baldur's Gate 2 and Beyond Divinity are not the only ones.
Other games coming to mind are:
-Oblivion
-Skyrim
-Blackguards 1
-AntharioN
-Heroes of Steel
And then of course there are the games which start with your imprisonment and part of the main story is to get out of it:
-Eye of the Beholder
-Grimrock
-Avernum 1
Another Start would be "Shipwrecking"
That's:
-Daggerfall
-Albion
-Planet Alcatraz
-Risen
-Age of Conan
-How to Survive
-Dungeon of the Endless
-Dead State
Baldur's Gate 2 and Beyond Divinity are not the only ones.
Other games coming to mind are:
-Oblivion
-Skyrim
-Blackguards 1
-AntharioN
-Heroes of Steel
And then of course there are the games which start with your imprisonment and part of the main story is to get out of it:
-Eye of the Beholder
-Grimrock
-Avernum 1
Another Start would be "Shipwrecking"
That's:
-Daggerfall
-Albion
-Planet Alcatraz
-Risen
-Age of Conan
-How to Survive
-Dungeon of the Endless
-Dead State
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2012
- Messages
- 4,708
S
Sacred_Path
Guest
Something that is a cliché in oldschool JRPG's, but not in Western RPG's:
Cities are safe havens, the outdoors is dangerous.
I actually wished this was the case more in Western RPG's. First of all it would solve some internal consistency problems (people clinging together in the face of danger, the thriving of civilized communities in monster infested lands) and most of all, I love that feeling of respite you have in a peaceful town where no danger lurks, and the outdoors is that scary place. Preferrably I would even limit the very dangerous areas to remote areas like deep forests, mountains and dungeons.
Cities are safe havens, the outdoors is dangerous.
I actually wished this was the case more in Western RPG's. First of all it would solve some internal consistency problems (people clinging together in the face of danger, the thriving of civilized communities in monster infested lands) and most of all, I love that feeling of respite you have in a peaceful town where no danger lurks, and the outdoors is that scary place. Preferrably I would even limit the very dangerous areas to remote areas like deep forests, mountains and dungeons.
The Lego Movie played with this quite good, imho.
Nephologist
Keeper of the Watch
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n.TheGrandListOfConsoleRolePlayingGameCliches
TV Tropes has a list of 192 console RPG cliches. Some of them are relevent to console and JRPGs only, but most can also apply to CRPGs.
TV Tropes has a list of 192 console RPG cliches. Some of them are relevent to console and JRPGs only, but most can also apply to CRPGs.
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