US Now Have A Total Gangster Government

[bkrueger]

@corvin: Thank you, I wouldn't have dared to say this myself. Is there a title of "Most Experienced Moron" PPGWatch can award to somebody?

@rithandril: I thought this was about fun, not about random personal attacks? Obviously you need some more experience.

@mudsling: sorry for derailing your thread a little bit but I had to respond to these.

 

[Rithrandil]

I dunno, you seem to be doing a lot of it and not really adding anything to the conversation.

Edit: Oh, and I figured it out. Bianca Krueger!

 

[bkrueger]

I dunno, you seem to be doing a lot of it and not really adding anything to the conversation.

And this WAS a valuable addition?

But seriously: this started with a joke by dteowner (not with some serious addition to a discussion), which I responded with a joke - thats all.

By the way I was thinking about the first part of your signature for some time.

Are you aware that the Romans DIDN'T want peace? Their Pax Romana was not peace as we understand it today but meant soemthing like: Rome rules the whole (known) world, killing and enslaving other people, and nobody else is strong enough to defend against Rome.

So this line "If you want peace prepare for war." was a piece of pure propaganda by Roman politicians justifying their goal to conquer the world.

So what do you believe is the impression on people, who know this background, when somebody uses this line?

(No meant as fun but as a serious consideration this time.)

 

[JDR13]

But seriously: this started with a joke by dteowner (not with some serious addition to a discussion), which I responded with a joke - thats all.

Er.....no.

dteowner made a joke, and then you responded with an insult. At least that's the way it looks.

 

[Rithrandil]

And this WAS a valuable addition?

But seriously: this started with a joke by dteowner (not with some serious addition to a discussion), which I responded with a joke - thats all.

And what I said was also a joke. Oh noes, someone said the b in your name may stand for a girl's name! Time to break out the pitchforks?

By the way I was thinking about the first part of your signature for some time.

Cool.

Are you aware that the Romans DIDN'T want peace? Their Pax Romana was not peace as we understand it today but meant soemthing like: Rome rules the whole (known) world, killing and enslaving other people, and nobody else is strong enough to defend against Rome.

Yes.

So this line "If you want peace prepare for war." was a piece of pure propaganda by Roman politicians justifying their goal to conquer the world.

Yes.

So what do you believe is the impression on people, who know this background, when somebody uses this line?

Why should I care about the impression? It's meaningless to me. If I wanted to make friends and be PC and cuddly I could quote Gandhi but I don't really agree with him.

Even if the original intention of the quote was something else, it's a valid piece of advice if you believe in any sort of realist international relations theory, just like Il Principe and Leviathan are extremely important works as well. I use it because I don't think the History of the Peloponnessian War or my favorite Machiavelli quotes would fit in here.

 

[dteowner]

He's choosing a rather unusual way to complain--seems like overkill to me--but I expect he'll come out quite nicely on his lawsuit because they had no legal basis to remove the flag.

edit- this is a response to mudsling's post. I hadn't read the bruhaha yet. I've got to mow the yard. Y'all carry on.

 

[magerette]

And if some lefty was burning the flag to protest the war, that would be desecration, but flying it upside down as a symbol of monetary distress is a first amendment right? Not that I'm outraged either way--it's a piece of cloth to me, like the Bible is a book, but whatever.

 

[pibbur]

And if some lefty was burning the flag to protest the war, that would be desecration, but flying it upside down as a symbol of monetary distress is a first amendment right? Not that I'm outraged either way--it's a piece of cloth to me, like the Bible is a book, but whatever.

Come to Norway where burning flags is perfectly legal, and even the right-wings are lefties. I'd be happy to show you around.

 

[Corwin]

I can't believe that some people don't recognise when others are simply having a bit of fun!! Jokes are permitted and I, at least can usually recognise them. Lighten up people and enjoy the day; you never know when it might be your last!!

 

[magerette]

Come to Norway where burning flags is perfectly legal, and even the right-wings are lefties. I'd be happy to show you around.

If I ever win the lottery, Ighartveit, I'll look you up. For now I'm stuck here shrizzeling up like a caterpillar on a hot plate in the red states where it was 112 degrees fahrenheit today, (which my handy web calculator converts to 44.4 degrees celsius, Corwin, just for you. And you probably are going to say that's not that hot, right? )

 

[Corwin]

Hate to say it Mags, but where I live it actually almost never gets that hot. It does in other parts of the country, but not here. Our average daily winter temp (during the day; it can get cooler at night) is 18-25 and our summer temp would be 25-35. Sure we can get some hotter days, but that's the norm. I'll let you do the conversions for practice!!

 

[vanedor]

If I ever win the lottery, Ighartveit, I'll look you up. For now I'm stuck here shrizzeling up like a caterpillar on a hot plate in the red states where it was 112 degrees fahrenheit today, (which my handy web calculator converts to 44.4 degrees celsius, Corwin, just for you. And you probably are going to say that's not that hot, right? )

Oh my god, oh my god.Great reason to leave the place if you need one. I don't know if it has ever been that warm here.

 

[vanedor]

My posts are probably blocked so he can't see them. He's in France and they don't like my kind over there...

They have a moron-blocker? Wow. Might be useful.

That awfully looks like an insult to me. If you claim that was a "joke"... fair enough, but don't get surprised if some people didnt see it that way.

 

[Rithrandil]

I just find it amusing that Brenda says that then flies the flag of war at something far smaller than what he said.

 

[dteowner]

And if some lefty was burning the flag to protest the war, that would be desecration, but flying it upside down as a symbol of monetary distress is a first amendment right? Not that I'm outraged either way--it's a piece of cloth to me, like the Bible is a book, but whatever.

Burning a flag, which results in a pile of ashes, is a little different from flying one upside down, which results in, ummm, a perfectly good flag. So I do think there's a difference of scale there. That said, while I think some joker burning the flag is disgraceful, I wouldn't throw them in jail for it. For that specific "non-crime", I'd strongly favor a spontaneous buttkicking by the citizenry (particularly if there's some retired military in the neighborhood). Since we're stretching the 1st amendment to cover the protestor, I'd stretch the criteria on an assault charge for the response.

 

[magerette]

Burning a flag, which results in a pile of ashes, is a little different from flying one upside down, which results in, ummm, a perfectly good flag. So I do think there's a difference of scale there. That said, while I think some joker burning the flag is disgraceful, I wouldn't throw them in jail for it. For that specific "non-crime", I'd strongly favor a spontaneous buttkicking by the citizenry (particularly if there's some retired military in the neighborhood). Since we're stretching the 1st amendment to cover the protestor, I'd stretch the criteria on an assault charge for the response.

Just like burning down a church is a little different from saying the Catholic mass backwards, wearing the cross upside down, and all those Satanic type things? I agree, there's a difference of degree of wrongness, but doing things backwards and upside down is a symbol of disrespect, while using an international distress signal as a protest against your financial situation is just egotism. Blathering about the first amendment rights in either situation seems about the same level of grandstanding and stretching of the Constitution that both sides ought to deplore.

I have no problem with any vigilante style buttkicking, though.


Edit: I think the heat is making me a bit cranky. ( ) Been outside all day dragging water hoses and sprinklers around trying to save scorched plants--the thermometer on the east side of the house in the shade read 110 degrees at 5:00 PM. So pardon the witch-like overtones.

 

[mudsling3]

And if some lefty was burning the flag to protest the war, that would be desecration, but flying it upside down as a symbol of monetary distress is a first amendment right? Not that I'm outraged either way--it's a piece of cloth to me, like the Bible is a book, but whatever.

How many flags have you burn so far since Mr. B.O. has taken the office?

 

[pibbur]

@magerette: Ouch! And I tend to get grumpy if the temperature rises above 20C (and for once I'm going to translate to the other scale: 68F). My sympathies!

 

[txa1265]

Burning a flag, which results in a pile of ashes, is a little different from flying one upside down, which results in, ummm, a perfectly good flag. So I do think there's a difference of scale there. That said, while I think some joker burning the flag is disgraceful, I wouldn't throw them in jail for it. For that specific "non-crime", I'd strongly favor a spontaneous buttkicking by the citizenry (particularly if there's some retired military in the neighborhood). Since we're stretching the 1st amendment to cover the protestor, I'd stretch the criteria on an assault charge for the response.

But don't the First Amendment rights already allow the opponents of flag-burning to yell and protest and picket and say pretty much anything aside from any identification with a 'protected group'? There is pretty clearly a difference between an inanimate object and a living being. If they want to burn a picture / poster / voodoo doll of the person in effigy ... I'm all for that

 

[dteowner]

Not quite sure I understand your point, Mike, but I think you're wanting to curtail my violence. It comes down to "action and consequence" as usual.

Let's say Joe Pinko wakes up in the morning and says to himself, "Self, I'm just so terribly upset about the evil corporate war and I've got to let the world know how I feel. Now, what can I do to draw attention to myse....errrr....the cause?" Joe could choose a love-in, or naked folk singing in the park, or reciting various "Strong Condemnations" from the UN from the courthouse steps. Joe can expect a nasty case of VD, or a lot of pointing and laughing from passerbys, or spontaneous meetings of the local insomniacs. Joe can decide just how strongly he feels about his convictions and "if A, then B" will run its course. But our little Joe wants to make a bigger splash, so he feels like burning a flag. The consequence is that Joe can expect a good healthy beatdown. Once again, Joe can decide just what voicing his opinion is worth. It's a free country, doncha know.