lackblogger
SasqWatch
- Joined
- November 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,778
The discussions which get played out most in any RPG/game forum tend to be the quite technical topics, such as bugs, gameplay mods, gameplay flaws, mechanics, getting stuck, difficulty, etc etc, and rightly so I suppose, as it is games we are playing most of the time, not interactive novels.
However, you will often find that everyone has a game they love despite a whole hoard of shortcomings in all kinds of different departments, and I think RPGs are more-so in this regard. Someone can make an appalling game that barely functions, but it will still garner a very strong following and, in most cases, the most determined and dedicated mod fanbase that will try to keep improving the game even decades later, comparable only to maybe the empire building strategy games. (I am classing most FPSs and Open World Action Games as RPG-like for the purposes of this discussion)
For example, I was reading up today about Simon the Sorcerer, a popular European RPGish Adventure game. Episodes 1 and 2 were made well and are still beloved, 3 was notably a bad game and people have pretty much forgotten about it and 4 was ok but missed the mark, but mostly forgotten about. If these had been full RPGs then you could bet there would be hoards of people scurrying away trying to make the later games all uber correct and interesting.
Also, looking at the RPG cRPG Analyser, in the 'must haves' it doesn't mention the most important, but more subjective, quantity that is atmosphere.
Take Dragon Age II for example. Poor ol' Couch is bored to tears of people saying how cruddy that game was, he's happy to plug away at it 7 times, and the more daring forum goers might try and pin down some specifics as to "why?", when the answer is probably the same as that one game we love but no-one else does - in that it provided an atmosphere (more than just game-world and law) that was right up our ally for some unexplainable and probably highly personal reason.
Another example that grows in popularity every year is the Trioka bug-fest Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, a game which was, on release, good for only complete masochists and barely anyone could complete it. But it hit home with a large group of very dedicated people and, year on year, it's turned into a very playable RPG classic. Why did this game deserve such special attention? Mainly because of atmosphere. It's atmosphere acted like a paralyzation cloud to a huge number of players, refusing to let them leave the game be.
If you ask me what THE most important aspect of an RPG is, then I would probably say "atmosphere, atmosphere, atmosphere". But you can't code atmosphere, it has to come from someone's soul, and it has to play the roulette wheel of hitting home with other people's concept of atmospherics. But, as a designer, you can try to make the game as atmospheric as possible by having that thing called a 'singular vision' (even if lots of different people work on and contribute to that singular vision).
Just for forum fun's sake (because we all love noseying into other people's game choices), do you kinda-sort-of agree? Think I'm nuts? And what games did you find were not really anything special, but, for some weird reason, grabbed your soul by sheer world immersion? Or games that always were great in both gameplay and immersion? What were the least atmospheric RPGs you've ever played? Let's see if we can find a useful pattern?
For me, my big surprise was Kings Bounty: The Legend. It's not really a format I was familiar with and didn't think I'd like it at all when I started playing it. My initial expectation was a game that would be only marginally better than a facebook game. But somehow or other, the more I played, the more I got suckered into this wonderful world that made me not care in the least that I was, essentially, having the same fights over and over again with barely any 'interesting' law in a not very traditional and previously forgotten about set RPG gameplay systems.
My biggest let down surprise was probably Neverwinter Nights 2 original campaign. The game was jam packed with conversations and associated exposition and law tid-bits, cut scenes, character building, varied locations which mostly looked like they were well designed, but I felt nothing but coldness playing it, a strange sense of emptiness which is difficult to describe but leaves you caring not one jot what happens during the game other than enabling you to progress. No sense of 'little thrills' when something catches your attention unexpectedly etc.
You might feel the complete opposite about my two choices. Which is the thing really. I'd be really interested to hear your examples. Preferably gloriously verbose and juicy descriptive examples .
However, you will often find that everyone has a game they love despite a whole hoard of shortcomings in all kinds of different departments, and I think RPGs are more-so in this regard. Someone can make an appalling game that barely functions, but it will still garner a very strong following and, in most cases, the most determined and dedicated mod fanbase that will try to keep improving the game even decades later, comparable only to maybe the empire building strategy games. (I am classing most FPSs and Open World Action Games as RPG-like for the purposes of this discussion)
For example, I was reading up today about Simon the Sorcerer, a popular European RPGish Adventure game. Episodes 1 and 2 were made well and are still beloved, 3 was notably a bad game and people have pretty much forgotten about it and 4 was ok but missed the mark, but mostly forgotten about. If these had been full RPGs then you could bet there would be hoards of people scurrying away trying to make the later games all uber correct and interesting.
Also, looking at the RPG cRPG Analyser, in the 'must haves' it doesn't mention the most important, but more subjective, quantity that is atmosphere.
Take Dragon Age II for example. Poor ol' Couch is bored to tears of people saying how cruddy that game was, he's happy to plug away at it 7 times, and the more daring forum goers might try and pin down some specifics as to "why?", when the answer is probably the same as that one game we love but no-one else does - in that it provided an atmosphere (more than just game-world and law) that was right up our ally for some unexplainable and probably highly personal reason.
Another example that grows in popularity every year is the Trioka bug-fest Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, a game which was, on release, good for only complete masochists and barely anyone could complete it. But it hit home with a large group of very dedicated people and, year on year, it's turned into a very playable RPG classic. Why did this game deserve such special attention? Mainly because of atmosphere. It's atmosphere acted like a paralyzation cloud to a huge number of players, refusing to let them leave the game be.
If you ask me what THE most important aspect of an RPG is, then I would probably say "atmosphere, atmosphere, atmosphere". But you can't code atmosphere, it has to come from someone's soul, and it has to play the roulette wheel of hitting home with other people's concept of atmospherics. But, as a designer, you can try to make the game as atmospheric as possible by having that thing called a 'singular vision' (even if lots of different people work on and contribute to that singular vision).
Just for forum fun's sake (because we all love noseying into other people's game choices), do you kinda-sort-of agree? Think I'm nuts? And what games did you find were not really anything special, but, for some weird reason, grabbed your soul by sheer world immersion? Or games that always were great in both gameplay and immersion? What were the least atmospheric RPGs you've ever played? Let's see if we can find a useful pattern?
For me, my big surprise was Kings Bounty: The Legend. It's not really a format I was familiar with and didn't think I'd like it at all when I started playing it. My initial expectation was a game that would be only marginally better than a facebook game. But somehow or other, the more I played, the more I got suckered into this wonderful world that made me not care in the least that I was, essentially, having the same fights over and over again with barely any 'interesting' law in a not very traditional and previously forgotten about set RPG gameplay systems.
My biggest let down surprise was probably Neverwinter Nights 2 original campaign. The game was jam packed with conversations and associated exposition and law tid-bits, cut scenes, character building, varied locations which mostly looked like they were well designed, but I felt nothing but coldness playing it, a strange sense of emptiness which is difficult to describe but leaves you caring not one jot what happens during the game other than enabling you to progress. No sense of 'little thrills' when something catches your attention unexpectedly etc.
You might feel the complete opposite about my two choices. Which is the thing really. I'd be really interested to hear your examples. Preferably gloriously verbose and juicy descriptive examples .
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2014
- Messages
- 4,778