Bought "Demons Souls" and Thought of You Lot!

Badger

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Hello RPGWatch

I recently bought "Demon's Souls" and naturally I thought of you. So I just thought I'd stop by, say hello and give you my thoughts on it... such as they are.

Well there's late to the party and there's late to the party! I'd actually never heard of "Demons Souls", an RPG exclusive to the PS3, until I read a forum thread early last week about it's spiritual successsor "Dark Souls" and I'm so late signing on that the games innovative online features are about to be lost with the shutdown of the game servers! D'oh!!

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Game Over Man, Game Over!


More on those innovative features a little later, but for now let me paint you a scene....

Dressed in my best armour (bucket on head and plastic "HE-Man" sword shoved down my belt) I sit poised in front of the television waiting for "Demon's Souls" to begin. An atmospheric intro tells me that on the first day we were granted clarity and a soul. Then on the second day a big kick ass demon arrived here, who eats souls!!! Well I don't know about you, but I hate it when that happens!!

I go on to see a Knight fighting a hoard of undead warriors, including a big skellie with a huge meatcleaver style sword. Before the arrival of the big bad himself, the soul eating dragon demon, who if you ask me owes more than a little to "H.R Giger".

After a brief spell in character creation, where I throw together "Sir Badger" a bald formidable looking Temple Knight, it's off to slay demons and take their souls. It's all about souls you see. A helpful narrator tells us that the demons have arrived via a thick fog, which moves across the land of "Boletaria" and they set about anyone they come across, tearing their souls from their bodies and turning them into undead minions! I have to say that to me this sounds strikingly familiar to the dense fog of the Saturday night television schedule and the effect of the demonic "X-Factor" demons contained within!

At any rate, the narrator (who by the way I think sound like that bird who works for "Ming the Merciless" and dispatches "Warlock" and "Ajax" to bring back "Flash Gordon"'s body) tells me that many hero's have ventured into the fog to slay the demons and none have ever returned..... any guesses as to who's expected to go in there next?
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!"

I materialize in the tutorial level and as a Temple Knight, Sir Badger apparently starts with a Halberd (No, not the fish.. that's a Halibut!) which as I'm sure you know is a long pole with a nasty axe head on the end. I'm not sure I like it, but I seem to have made my bed and so axe on a stick it is.

A glowing message on the floor tells me that R1 will give Sir Badger a standard swipe with his Halberd. It's the first of a number of such messages which will guide me through the tutorial section, explaining the basics of movement and combat. A moment later our first undead minion lumbers slowly toward me, not actually moaning "Braaaiiiins", but as good as. Two quick chops dispatch him and his soul is mine! Huzzah! Wait.... I thought that the demons ate the souls of these people and then turned them into undead minions... erm... never mind, zombie corpse = result!

I like this and I like this Halberd after all. The minion didn't actually manage to get into striking range before I gave him a good stabbing and as I play on I very much like the games considered approach to combat. Block, roll, jump back, target lock & strafe, parry and ripost and back stabbing are all available (with the last two maneuvers earning extra soul rewards when pulled off correctly) with all using varying amount of stamina, which when depleted leaves you defenseless, though it quickly recharges. This is obviously no button masher, this is going to require tactics and skill.

As a second adversary lumbers into view, a white spirit like form dances by, seems to play out an imaginary fight scene with an invisible foe, then runs off round the corner. This is my first visible encounter with the games online features (soon to be discontinued) and the spirit form was actually another player on the server, playing in the same section of the map as I am. The invisible enemy he was fighting was actually his version of the minion lumbering toward me... does that make sense? Oh I'm sure you know what I mean.

You don't actually communicate or interact directly with these other players ( at least under normal conditions..more on that later) but you "can" leave them messages on the ground, like the glowing tutorial messages, which might warn of impending danger, or point out the view, or just say "hi". These messages can be recommended and if you get a recommendation, then your health bar fills up in your game. Very handy if it happens to be during a tough fight.

Meanwhile I leave the open area I've been wandering through and make my way through a large stone archway into a building and immediately encounter a favourite tactic of "Demon's Souls", at least in the opening levels, the ambush.

A Zombie leaps at me from the shadows, all whirling swords and bad attitude and it quickly becomes clear that keeping your guard up when venturing into the unknown is going to be vitally important and being hit without a guard hurts much more as evidenced by my shrinking life bar! Of course keeping that guard up drains the stamina.. but then nothing in life comes for free does it.

After introducing the offending minion to Mr Axe on a Stick, I discover that he was guarding a body of an unfortunate Knight slumped on a stone stairway. A glowing orb above the bodies head tells me that searching him will give me some treasure and it turns out to be "Moon Grass" (Hmmm.. doesn't sound quite legal to me..) which is a restorative. But other treasure can be anything from drugs to better weapons.

I discover later that none of the destructible scenery, barrels, store piles, weapons racks and such, all of which I've been happily smashing to find treasure, actually seem to contain any. (Although some objects can be smashed to reveal treasure hidden behind.) Instead most treasure seems to be found on the bodies of dead adventurers or creatures you slay and I've read that all the best weapons are to be found this way, rather than buying them from the shops you encounter later on.

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Instakill if they breath fire on you. I've only managed to get half the treasure from here.


The next foe takes me by surprise as well and I lose a good portion of life before I finally put him down. this was partly because I wasn't paying attention. Not realising I was being snuck up on, I had actually stopped for a moment to make a few notes for writing this later! Now I ask you.. is that remotely fair?? Also because once I did get into the fight I found to my cost that while the Halberd is fine and dandy in a nice big courtyard, it's not so much fun in an enclosed corridor!

As the games ragdoll corpse physics course the dead minion to rumble along annoyingly at my feet until I manage to kick him off, I notice a bloodstain on the floor. Touching this introduces me to another innovative online feature as the last moments of the player who left it (in his own game) are played out and I see him slashing wildly this way and that at presumably the enemy I just fought. It's clear (even if we didn't know in advance) that he ain't gonna make it and in fact as I encounter more blood stains later on, it really surprises me that so many players are so staggeringly inept! I mean I don't consider myself a particularly good gamer, but these folks! Wow, it gives me hope that I might be able to play games after all!

As I round the next corner I'm impaled by an arrow from an archer hidden in the shadows! Bast! Feel my axe on a stick you dog! But beyond him lies a shimmering fog and I have to press "X" to continue. Is my tutorial over?

Nah! It was just switching me to a different section of the map and here things start to get a little tougher. The lumbering Zombie types still shamble about, but they are joined by more sprightly soldier minions, some of whom jump at you and twirl twin blades.

Eventually though I managed to wade my way through to another shimmering mist and this time I'm pretty sure I've reached the last phase of the tutorial. Through the fog I can see some kind of huge shape moving around and I can hear it too. That's either a pretty hefty demon growling in there, or else someone had a really dodgy curry last night! I'm not sure I know which I hope it'll be! Am I ready for as major demon fight? Only one way to find out and with a deep breath I head into the misty void.

OKAY... big demon..sodding big demon... OUCH!! that's a big sword you just stabbed me with, that's going to hurt in the morning! Ughghghg... I appear to be dead. Not a very noble end to my tutorial considering that the nasty fellow actually finished me off by .. erm... sitting on me!! Yep, not a mighty thrust with the vorpal blade of shocking plus seven. But rather crushed and killed by the ignoble arse of death! Nice!

Never fear though folks, it turns out that this was an unavoidable death and simply signals the end of the tutorial and my arrival in the "Nexus", having been resurrected in spirit form and told that I now have to set about winning my body back by killing a boss demon. Hey, I'm not confused.. no not me.

The "Nexus" is a hub area in which you can shop and store equipment, talk to various characters and have access to the different worlds of "Demons Souls" via touching large stone tablets, though initially you only have access to one.

The Nexus is pretty cavernous and is flanked on either side by tall spiral staircases which go all the way up into the heights of the chamber. There are lots of bloodstains on the floor, some of which show people fighting something (which I haven't worked out because this seems to be a safe area) but most of which show people climbing up the staircases before throwing themselves to their deaths. This just seemed kinda stupid and after a while more than a little unoriginal. But I've since discovered why they do it and I'll tell you in a minute.

That though is the story of my encounter with "Demon's Souls" tutorial. I've played well into the first world since then and can confirm that things get a lot harder, earning the game it's reputation as merciless.

It's not so much the enemies you face, though they can be fierce and it later levels I'm told fearsomely difficult. It's more the old school approach of the thing. No pause function. no save function! Death at any stage in the level, even right up to and including the end of level boss, results in being transported right back to the start again with a loss of all souls collected and all enemies re-spawned. You can reacquire those lost souls, but only if you manage to make it back to where you died, without dying again and touch your own bloodstain. We're just not used to this kind of thing anymore, we're too mollycoddled.

That said, there are certain things that do help you out a little if you find yourself having to start again. Prior knowledge of what you are facing of course. then there are certain traps which once sprung, stay sprung, so you don't have to worry about them on a re-run. Plus here and there are events which open shortcuts like a previously close portcullis which allows you access to upper battlements without having to work your way up there the long way around. On the other side of the coin though, much of the treasure is a one time find. So you don't pick that up on a re-run either.

I have to say though that I've been enjoying the gameplay so much that even once shortcuts have been available I've not necessarily been taking them. Plus working through the whole thing again does build up that all important store of souls, which can be used in the Nexus to buy new equipment, upgrade existing equipment, or advance your stats..eventually.

I say "eventually" because in another difficulty curve shocker, it turns out that you don't get access to the character in the Nexus who increases you stats, until you have defeated the boss on the first proper level. Thus you arrive at the fog portal for your first proper boss, a creature called "The Phalanx", brimming with souls, all of which you stand to lose if you don't win, yet you're unable to beef yourself up a little in preparation! Gaghghgh!

From what I read "The Phalanx" is little more than a huge jelly, surrounded by shielded and spear jutting mini jellies. But I have to shamefacedly admit that so far I've not been brave enough to step through that fog and face him, risking my six thousand accumulated souls!! Yeah I know... wuss!

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Just a big old jelly... but I'm scared to go there yet!


I'm not entirely without tales of skill and courage though. On this first level where for the most part the enemies are pretty easy going, there are none the less Captains/evil Knights who are markedly more difficult to defeat than their lumbering brethren. The feeling of satisfaction from defeating these enemies, particularly using a perfectly timed parry and riposte for example (which'll give you a one hit kill) is terrific.

One specific enemy, a red eyed Knight is particularly nasty. Leading up to his area you'll certainly encounter messages from other players, warning newbies to stay away. He's a terror supposedly unapproachable until you revisit this world with a few more levels under your belt. He chopped me up twice, but on our third encounter he reckoned without my animal cunning!

I knew I couldn't fight him on the narrow rampart he guards, so I decided to activate him and get him to chase me across the now deserted (I'd killed everyone else) battlements and finally down the spiral staircase of a tall tower and back into the starting area, which is fairly wide and where "I hoped" I would face him and kill him.

Thing is though, he followed me to that towering staircase, the empty middle of which is effectively a chasm, then he caught up with me and thrust his one hit kill lance at my head. I dodged, he turned to try again and...... he fell! All the way down! Splat!

redeyedknight.jpg

This is the meanest enemy on level 1. He didn't survive your Badger though!


I'll take em any way I can get em thank you. I collected his souls, along with the treasure he was guarding back up top. The only frustrating thing is that there's a locked door up there to which I don't have a key. What's in there?? Bah!!

Anyway time to finish I suppose.. just time enough though to tell you as promised about those weird seemingly pointless (except for attention grabbing) suicides in the Nexus.

An aspect of the game which I am not so keen on, (but have not yet encountered and as the servers are about to shut, won't have to worry about for long) is the PvP aspect.

It seems if you have the right magical stones and are invited, that you can move to another players world and co-op with them to beat some of the difficult odds the game throws at you. But... it is also possible if you have different magic stones, to enter the world of another player, without needing permission, and try to kill him!

There is a legitimate reason for this unscrupulous behavior, (even if it is a bit mean) which is that killing another player, like killing and end of level boss, earns you your corporeal body back. Apparently there is even one particular boss, who imports another player and forces him to fight you to the death in a dual! (Quite how that'll work once the servers are gone is anyone's guess.)

While this all sounds kind of exiting and certainly more than a little different, there are sadly (as there always are with these things) a-holes out there who will make the trip just to kill less experienced players for jollies!

However.. it turns out that you can only invade the world of a player who has already won back his corporeal body and not the world of a player in spirit form. Anybody see where this is heading yet? ... Yup, it turns out that many players on winning back their bodies, promptly commit suicide so that they continue to play as spirits and can't be invaded!

Now if you'll excuse me folks I have to go scoff some "for goodness sake be a man" pills, so that I can find the courage to go fight that giant jelly boss, The Phalanx!

Badger Out
 
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Good and fun read... I've been wanting to play this game... now if I just had a PS3!
 
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Great review. Very entertaining.

I've got an Xbox and am tempted to try Dark Souls when it comes out, but I think I won't. I just don't have the dedication for an extremely difficult, time consuming game like this. Also, Xbox makes you pay for a Gold Live account (to play with other players) and no way in Hell am I going to pay $12/month to get griefed by manic 12 year olds. The online clue-leaving and ghost thing is awesome, but I'd likely ragequit if some other player barged into my game and killed me.

That said, it looks like a great game. Wish I had more time on my hands this long dreary upcoming winter to play games... But I just can't get into something whose main selling point (or at least the one you hear over and over) is that it's punishingly difficult. I don't play games to prove my manhood.
 
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Hey Badger, wonderful to hear from you again!! Don't be a stranger.
 
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Well done Badger, you just bought a modern masterpiece ;).
And for all Xbox 360 users out there, do yourself a favor: buy Dark Souls, you won't regret it.
Also, if you pre order it, you get the Limited Edition at the same price of the standard edition. What more do you want?
And now, if you excuse me, I have to farm some Pure Bladestone to reach Platinum Trophy...
 
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I don't remember ever getting another 'evil' player in my game. I did see other souls wandering around, but they were 'blue' and I think I could invite them to help me or something, never did though.
 
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You were lucky Wolfling, my game wasn't so easy: I encountered invading Black Phantom three times, one killed me (stupid stunlock btw), one was succesfully killed by me ;), and the last one was during the Old Monk event (what a great fight, too bad that I didn't filmed it).
Anyway, this is the only game where I enjoy PvP mechanics, even if I die xD.
 
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Thanks all, glad you enjoyed it. :)

Having played on since the weekend, I'm increasingly glad I bought this game. I'm finding that the lack of a save function, which at the start I found pretty daunting, I now realize is a mindset problem inherited from modern gaming, quickly unlearned once "Demon's Souls" is approached in the correct way.

From what I can see, you don't actually "finish" a level in the way we've come to expect. You can always return to farm more souls and also some stuff appears to be retrospective. For example any shortcuts opened stay opened on future play throughs. A key earned from a baddie in one stage, might require that you return to a prior stage to find the door that before you couldn't unlock. A powerful weapon earned in one stage, can be returned with to a previous stage to fight baddies you couldn't manage before. A creature guarding a treasure in one stage, might appear in another capacity in another stage and if it dies in the later stage... it's no longer there to guard it's treasure in the earlier stage! Wow... I think I confused myself there.

You might remember I cheaply saw off the vile red eyed knight on the battlements, but wasn't able to get past a locked door beyond him? Well in another part of the same level I escorted a friendly knight to safety and he gave me a telescope in return. Hmmm very useful.. Anyway.. on a subsequent playthrough I was taking a different route and heard fighting. I peered over a wall to see that same knight, who for some reason appeared to have reset. Now fighting alone and sadly not faring too well! As I watched he was cut down and presently I went down there to see what the treasure was glowing above his body... it was a "Mausoleum Key". What's the betting it's the key to the locked door behind the red eyed fella!

I'll admit I might never finish this game. It just demands too long per session and is happy to cut you down and send you back to the start after an hour and a half's hard fought battle. But while you lose all the souls you took, you keep any equipment you found and maybe, just maybe, you picked up something that lets you get further next time.

Yes I might not finish this.. it earns it's title as unforgiving. Particularly to a soft numpty like me, fattened on the easy pickings of modern "hold you by the hand" gaming. But playing it is a complete blast and I can see myself coming back to this time and again, even if I never actually see the end!

Badger
 
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They've just announced that they will keep the servers for Demons Souls active till 2012. Though they didn't say just how far into 2012 they would still be available.

I would have bought this game in a New York minute, but I have a X-Box 360 and will not buy the PS3. Too bad it never came out for PC or the X-Box.
 
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Don't worry skav, you can purchase Dark Souls next month.

I'm worried they may have gone overboard with the difficulty this time though. Here's a review diary from a UK reviewer who claims it's "much harder than Demon's Souls".

Part 1
Part 2

An excerpt..

People read this review diary, and they ask me "how in the hell is this game supposed to be fun?" Truth is, Dark Souls isn't fun, 95% of the time. It's the other 5% that you play for. Things are so incredibly difficult that even the tiniest victories bring you close to tears of joy and relief.
 
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Thank you very much JDR. I did not know about Dark Souls and will be grabbing it the second it's released.

I'd rather have too difficult than too easy. At least with too difficult I can try different tactics to survive. With too easy I could be in a coma and still win.
 
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Very good "article/excerpt" Badger! Brought back a lot of fond memories of playing Demon's Souls. Thanks for pointing out the reactivity of the world; I had kind of forgotten about that element. DS was certainly more dynamic than it was given credit for when I think back to all the changes in the levels, both previous and current. The "guy with the mausoleum key" is a great example of a long-running quest that has multiple outcomes depending on events that play out as the game progresses.

JDR: Thanks for pointing out the Dark Souls Article. I am a bit weary about the comments - from both the developers themselves and preview articles - that point out that the game is somehow much more difficult than Demon's Souls. If that is the case, then I am a bit hesitant to buy it. I thought the difficulty of Demon's Souls was just right, but only just; it certainly walked a very fine line between punishing yet fair and outright frustrating, and that balance might be ruined if it is pushed too far.

From what little gameplay footage I have seen, it seems that Dark Souls features many more hidden enemies and ambushes, which could lead to unfair and unsuspecting deaths, regardless of the player's tactical awareness and skill at playing the game. In comparison, Demon's Souls was definitely fair for the most part, as the majority of the encounters could be successfully completed with proper timing and/or the right character build for the player's style of play. Guess I'll have to wait a while after release to see how it shakes out.
 
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Personally, I'm not afraid of the difficulty in Dark Souls (I got used to that in Demon's Souls ;)): From Software has implemented well the concept of "difficulty" in modern video games IMHO. Enemies follow scripted attack patterns, that's for sure, but you could always got a chance to get stuck and die even by the stupid zombie if you don't pay attention...
In DkS there's a checkpoint system, to I think it should be less frustrating than DS, but maybe this could dumb down the entire game, let's see...
 
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Awww, poor IGN person doesn't like having to invest himself.

These games play fair, but they also require you to invest yourself. If you don't want to do that, and if you don't want to work to understand mechanics and attain the proper timing - you'll never get comfortable with it.

The same thing happened in Demon's Souls. It took me a while to accept the level of commitment required to succeed. Once I got there, though, it became much more managable - and sometimes almost too easy.

So, it's simple.

If you don't want to make the effort in a computer game, this isn't going to be for you.

However, if you like a game that rewards patience and dedication - then this is likely for you - if you otherwise enjoy a hugely immersive world that almost "takes you over" until you're done.

I'm so thankful that we still have developers who dedicate themselves to make games like this. It takes a LOT of work to balance a game to this level of precision and combat feedback. It's almost a miracle to get one for the western market.

What's more, it's just around the corner!
 
On Gamespot the Dark Souls review is work in progress btw ;).
DArtagnan, it was the same for me: DS awards those who invest time and dedication, and an action game (as its core), this is amazing for me.
Anyway, sometimes it is very frustrating: I'm still missing that stupid Pure Bladestone (I really want the Platinum Trophy :)).
 
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On Gamespot the Dark Souls review is work in progress btw ;).
DArtagnan, it was the same for me: DS awards those who invest time and dedication, and an action game (as its core), this is amazing for me.
Anyway, sometimes it is very frustrating: I'm still missing that stupid Pure Bladestone (I really want the Platinum Trophy :)).

I was stupid enough to visit a Wiki site for Demon's Souls, which kinda spoiled much of the game for me. I'm mostly about character development and stuff like loot configuration.

I found out what gear was available and what would be optimal for my character, which ruined a lot of the fun of experimentation of discovery.

I don't intend to repeat that mistake for Dark Souls - and I intend to experience it without any outside help, if at all possible.

I was doing really well in Demon's Souls after a while, and I just couldn't resist reading up on gear and crafting.

In many ways, I think the information available online can ruin games. Mostly because Demon's Souls had been out for a long time when I got my hands on it.

New games are better, because you can be part of all these discoveries.
 
I was stupid enough to visit a Wiki site for Demon's Souls, which kinda spoiled much of the game for me. I'm mostly about character development and stuff like loot configuration.

I found out what gear was available and what would be optimal for my character, which ruined a lot of the fun of experimentation of discovery.

I don't intend to repeat that mistake for Dark Souls - and I intend to experience it without any outside help, if at all possible.

I was doing really well in Demon's Souls after a while, and I just couldn't resist reading up on gear and crafting.

In many ways, I think the information available online can ruin games. Mostly because Demon's Souls had been out for a long time when I got my hands on it.

New games are better, because you can be part of all these discoveries.

Lol I made your mistake too, altough I wasn't doing much fine with my first character: I was too melee focused :p.
Anyway, I preordered the limited edition, which contains the guide, but this time I won't try to read anything until it becomes absolutely necessary.
This time, no spoilers or online helps: I'm preparing to die a lot ;).
 
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