DA2 Dragon Age 2 - now officially a success

[sakichop]

To be fair: The direction itself wasn't the main problem of DA2 (for me, at least). The problem was that they didn't have enough time to work on them and overcome some of the flaws (like the cave thing).

I for one found the direction most alarming because the direction will most likely be continued. Being rushed probable won't.

We all know da2's flaws they've been posted many times so I won't rehash them here. One thing I have wondered though is why many others including myself (as I quit playing after act 1) is why we can't we forgive da2 and enjoy it for what it is, a shallow arpg ?

I mean I've played and enjoyed toee, BG dark alliance , champions of norath, even demonstone and d&d heroes. All of those were much more shallow than da2. The witcher and gothic 3 were so broken at release they required free enhance editions but I forgave them and they are 2 of my favorites now.

I could go on and on about games that had significant flaws but I was able to forgive them and enjoy them very much.

So why can't we do the same for da2 believe me i've tried but every time I start it up I just get angry and quit again. It's got to be more than just dao was good and da2 wasn't right?

 

[xSamhainx]

I had no intention of playing DA2, then it was bought for me as a birthday gift..

So i made the best of it, looked at it objectively (as much as I could) and while I'm not done I have to say - as we all suspected it's a fast-food DA:O. And I like action-rpgs in doses, I'll dive in and play thru a Titan Quest or Sacred from time to time, and sadly the DA:O franchise is now lumped in w/ the rest of the casual rpg fast food. Something to play once and awhile, and it can be fun at times, but nothing that I'll ever take seriously. Or pay for.

Like Boo said, a lot of people (including my fiancee who bought the game) assumed it was DA:O II, and that I imagine really padded their sales. They will not be fooled again!

 

[Dasale]

So why can't we do the same for da2 believe me i've tried but every time I start it up I just get angry and quit again. It's got to be more than just dao was good and da2 wasn't right?

Wooo it's surprising you even quote that non sense yourself fall into.

I just develop in another thread a theory about the rise of whining amount, I feel it's something relatively recent like less than a year and recent in term of degree and amount, but that's the degree and amount which is the point.

My specie survival reflex theory is a little too much humor oriented to be true, but I have a strong feeling this whining orientation is a strong sign of time, a change of time.

That said if you look at a global point of view it remind a lot a mechanism that can happen for some kids when they get everything and too much of everything, some tend end unsatisfied of anything because of the exaggerate abundance.

 

[sakichop]

Sorry dasale I refuse to like everything so you won't call me a whiner. I mean really i've read your posts in other threads calling people whiners.

Whiner=anybody that posts something dasale disagrees with.

If you have something to contribute then do it otherwise i'll pass on your sage advice that i'm a whiner.

 

[Couchpotato]

Sorry dasale I refuse to like everything so you won't call me a whiner. I mean really i've read your posts in other threads calling people whiners.

Whiner=anybody that posts something dasale disagrees with.

If you have something to contribute then do it otherwise i'll pass on your sage advice that i'm a whiner.

Don't bother he is always like this. Disagrees with everyone and thinks he is always right.

 

[xSamhainx]

I keep wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt, because I have had good convo w/ Dasale before. English is clearly not his first language, so I think he may come across a little more… *thinks for a second** judgemental, than he means to. But he really does seem be quick to throw the 'non sense' and 'whining' thing around regarding other's opinions a bit much lately tho..

 

[Motoki]

Like I have posted on the Bioware forums, it is entirely reasonable and natural to expect a sequel to be somewhat similar to the original. One of the points of making a direct sequel, as opposed to a wholly new game or a spin off, is name recognition, to bring back the audience of the original. Otherwise why bother? It's not even like they had more Origins story to tell because they keep teasing out the Morrigan stuff and instead going way off on tangents.

The rushed nature of the game, while rather shameful, I think I could live with but the direction, style and obvious change in the intended audience really bothers me. Again, if they had called it something else and it simply wasn't my tastes it wouldn't be an issue, but that they called it Dragon Age 2 seems rather like bait and switch to me.

In particular, I dislike the pseudo-anime style with swords too big, waves of teleporting ninjas dropping out of the sky, bodies exploding etc etc. It is over the top cartoonish and I hardly recognize it as Dragon Age at all. I feel like I am watching some show on Adult Swim.

If DA:O was D&D Lite, this is Final Fantasy: Lite. I actually did enjoy some of the Final Fantasy games for what they are, but at least you know what you are getting into. They are absolutely linear interactive movies and they don't make any pretense of giving you choices.

The choices in DA2 are pointless except to change how Hawke reacts to inevitable events.

The story is kind of a disjointed mess as well. The acts don't flow together all that well and there really is no driving force to the narrative once the prologue is done very early on and you make your escape. After that it's basically just wander around town and see what odd jobs come up and what kind of trouble you can get into. It really feels like stuff just happens to Hawke for being in the right or wrong place at the right time and not for anything he/she did.

On its own merits it's a mediocre, forgettable game that provides some light fun and diversion if you aren't expecting too much. As a direct sequel to Dragon Age: Origins it's an absolute disgrace.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

but DA2 is no flop.

Who knows? Bioware is not new in the business. They had one brilliant idea, that is making this game a side story rather than a sequel. Considering their unkeepable approach on big decisions that should transform the game universe deeply and durable and DAO various endings, it seriously and smartly decreased the cost of productions.


Plus the general direction they gave to the game. And the very fact heavy costs involved in DAO were amortized already.

Bioware was aiming for big profits on this one: not only the big profits that come mechanically from banking on investment (lore is developped, art is more or less developped, game structure is developped etc) but also from rushed production, success of the first episode and dismissal of promises hold by the big decisions framework.

Bioware arent new to the business and considering all the choices they made, they certainly did not meet their expectations.

 

[JemyM]

Heh. The name of this thread makes me imagine Bioware shouting at the community like Phoenix Wright;

Of course, there is a limit on how much the community can take, and just reaching the "ok" result rather than pwning the market like they done before, is a step back.

 

[Dasale]

But he really does seem be quick to throw the 'non sense' and 'whining' thing around regarding other's opinions a bit much lately tho..

Lol, I never read that amount of absurdity. No jump no buy is a good example.

Just taking last posts of this thread: "As a direct sequel to Dragon Age: Origins it's an absolute disgrace." An absolute disgrace, lol, what to answer that? Nothing but whiner open your eyes, there are good qualities and even points improved like classes talents. Ignore that and fall into quoting DA2 as an "absolute disgrace" is nothing but blind whining.

It's like JemmyM post considering Bioware has all cynicism than possible and just want make more money and don't care make good game. Again, it's such an exaggerate point of view, nothing but whiner.

It's like game flaws are now insult to players, but no game ever been perfect. It's like only flaws are seen and good points ignored, again it's pure whining. But the point is most probably there's too many with a codex mentality here, that's what has changed.

 

[xSamhainx]

No jump no buy is a joke. It would be nice, but it wouldnt keep me from buying anything. Again, English not being your first language, perhaps you dont always pick up such nuances when someone is being funny, sarcastic, etc.

Dragon Age II, to some people yes would be a disgrace in comparison to the original. It looks like a quick cash grab. For all the positive changes, there's plenty of negative. Classes talents havent been changed all that much for the better in my opinion. Skills are gone. Environments are shamefully re-used left and right in a game world that's not very big. Configuration of party member's equipment is very limited. Enemies parachuting in for another wave after every fight is tiresome. The camera view locked over the shoulder makes strategizing very difficult at times. The story is a joke. The interaction w/ the party members isnt there. They even gave the Mabari War Hound a lobotomy and set him on autopilot!

It's not all bad as an action game, but it's just not the captivating roleplaying game that the original was. It's not whining, it's an observation.

For all your complaining about people supposedly whining, Dasale, youre starting to sound like a pretty big whiner yourself because people have opinions other than yours!

 

[Motoki]

On the reused areas I think the DLCs for DA:O set that precedent and they figured if they got away with it there they could pull it off in a full game.

Oh and Dasale if you are going to quote me at least put it in context. I said it was an absolute disgrace as a direct sequel to Dragon Age:Origins. As in a customer would naturally expect something at least somewhat similar to the original since that is kind of the point of a sequel. Many people bought the game solely because it was the sequel to Dragon Age: Origins when they may not have if it was called something else. Likewise, a sequel will always be compared to the original and this is where all of the things that were taken away or scaled back become highlighted and DA2 falls far short.

Completely on it's own merit it's just average. Not especially memorable and obviously rushed, but a fun enough diversion.

Bioware could have avoided the bulk of the 'whining' easily by simply not putting the number "2" in the title and giving it another subtitle. It was apparently at one point going to be called "Dragon Age: Exodus" that title supposedly still exists in the debug script even. They should have kept it that way but they didn't so people feel misled. When people spend money expecting one thing and get something else yes they will complain.

 

[Gaxkang]

Lol, I never read that amount of absurdity. No jump no buy is a good example….
quoting DA2 as an "absolute disgrace" is nothing but blind whining….
Again, it's such an exaggerate point of view, nothing but whiner….
…only flaws are seen and good points ignored, again it's pure whining.

Just a little friendly advice - it might help to get your point accross if you didn't just use the word "whiner" in every sentence. I agree it's a really nice sounding word (reminds me of 'wine' which I drink lots of, by the way), but … variety is the spice of life. So you might try: "haters", "nerd ragers", "PC elitists" or "those resisting evolution". Look on the BioWare social forums for other inspirations.

To me it is DA2 represents an attempt to retire the RPG in slow easy steps. Make it go the way of turn based strategy and complex combat flight simulators. It would be ridiculous to call DA2 a hack and slash, but I'd bet anything it won't be ridiculous to call DA3 that, and it will be a totally correct description of DA4.

So whether it sells well or not, really decides the how much of the 'RPG' survives. If DA2 sells awesomely, then RPG conventions will be slowly shelved, and not just by BioWare. If it sells in a lacklustre manner, then maybe BioWare will convince EA to rethink this whole 'action adventure with dialog' thing. Or maybe some BioWare employees will defect and start their own studio. This debate is now raging among ME fans, oddly enough (with all the changes announced to ME3). Never thought that group would ever be up in arms about stats! Funny world…

 

[Zloth]

<Zloth shrugs and goes back to play DA2 some more>

 

[Couchpotato]

<Zloth shrugs and goes back to play DA2 some more>

Cant see why you would there is no replay value in the game.

 

[Dasale]

For the no jump no buy you used it as a joke but the initial post from someone else had nothing of a joke and some people even started argue about that.

It's not about having a different opinion, it's there's too many whiners that only see the flaws and ignore qualities. When I play a game I'm curious to read about it and hardly resist check threads about it. And now I felt upon a constant assault explaining me I'm playing a total crap. This tend to low down my own fun in playing the game.

Moreover this constant negative stream makes me tired even when I don't care much of the game. All the problem is that too many RPG players get obsessed by the flaws this is creating a dis-balance and an awful mood. The Watch is still far from codex but it is going closer and closer, for codex it's more game of hate plus a bunch of real haters, at watch it's just few haters coming from codex and more and more whiners.

About whining, haters, or any word, the problem is the mass are just that whiners. Remind me a lot bad educated children.

 

[Dasale]

Cant see why you would there is no replay value in the game.

Here a typical example, you suck man, and hard. You don't only hate everything and any RPG but players too. This aggression is so pointless and just could disgust someone enjoying playing a game.

 

[Couchpotato]

Here a typical example, you suck man, and hard. You don't only hate everything and any RPG but players too. This aggression is so pointless and just could disgust someone enjoying playing a game.

A lovely quote on logic from Dasale can you go without putting players and fellow watchers down in every post. Man you sound like a old man I knew who always shouted get off my grass and called this generation losers. If I liked every rpg that came out I wouldn't have standards and just buy every piece of crap that comes out.

Get over your self man it seems you have a grudge on people who have vaild reasons for calling this game crap or any game that has flaws The game may have done some things right but not enough to redeem it self.

I dont know what world you live in if you expect everyone to love every rpg that comes out based on the games good points. But if you want I can be more aggressive as you pointed out if you want. You also dont seem to understand irony and joking around in my and other people posts. I'll end it there since I never got along with you anyway.

 

[Dasale]

Get hurt? Poor little kid, well I don't care.

 

[Couchpotato]

Get hurt? Poor little kid, well I don't care.

Really and you call that mature do you? I defend my stance from posters like you and get called a kid.Why dont you check my profile. Try again please.