Skyrim Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[GothicGothicness]

Ask John Carmack and what he thinks about Rage on 360.

You mean this?

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/rage-ps3-xbox-id-carmack,news-4349.html

A bit old though.... perhaps as outdated as what he said about OpenGL vs DirectX a loooong time ago.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I like the idea that if you take a perk then relating constellation will light up in the sky for you in the game world (at least that is what it sounds like).

Unique. Havemn't seen such an idea in any game during my whole life.

My honest and high respect for the one who invented it !

 

[zadokAllen]

You mean this?

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/rage-ps3-xbox-id-carmack,news-4349.html

A bit old though…. perhaps as outdated as what he said about OpenGL vs DirectX a loooong time ago.

Oh wow Touche, sir

Not that old… the one I remember is older.

Also from one of the comments under your article : "Gameinformer this month has him stating the total system power gives them more to work with as well as the blu-ray advantages(2 disc Rage, 3 disc Doom 4)"

Amazing, eh? It`s a nice 180 on opinion level. Don`t wanna go into any conspiracy theories but it`s quite funny.

So now we`re back to this PS3 - harder-to-code-for thingy. Well, it might or might not be true… probably is, since 360 is sort of a PC
I`d still argue PS3 is more powerful than 360 hardware wise thou. And this gen, I`m actually neutral.

 

[DArtagnan]

"But I don`t want anything."
(Not that I want or not, it`s just a sample of your style. As you can see it`s rather hard to argue with

Maybe the difference is that I'm not seeking an argument

I'm just explaining my point of view until people get tired - which seems to be the norm (sad isn't it - haha), or I feel they understand where I'm coming from.

I generally have no problem understanding the points of view of others, and I have no desire to change them.

But I very often don't agree.

 

[GothicGothicness]

Oh wow Touche, sir

Not that old… the one I remember is older.

If I was a noob I'd say pwned. If you talk about graphics powers I'd say the xbox 360 has a bit of an upper hand because it has a slightly better graphics processor, however if you talk of overall power the PS3 is more powerful... meaning things such as AI and physics, can be improved.

 

[zadokAllen]

If I was a noob I'd say pwned.

Easy, now. If you read my link you saw it`s Carmack that`s trolling both of us.

 

[DArtagnan]

I own both systems, and it's clear to me that the Xbox is the better gaming machine.

However, the PS3 is the superior media center - so it all works out

 

[zadokAllen]

Maybe the difference is that I'm not seeking an argument

I'm just explaining my point of view until people get tired.

Semantics, again. We both argue on internet forum. What`s the point of implying that I`m "seeking" an argument?

Anything wrong with "arguing"? "Discussing"?

Words...

 

[DArtagnan]

Semantics, again. We both argue on internet forum. What`s the point of implying that I`m "seeking" an argument?

Anything wrong with "arguing"? "Discussing"?

Words…

The point of implying is to imply

I was suggesting that maybe you're seeking an argument where none is needed. Since you're not making arguments that I consider particularly strong, and you say you're "in the mood" - it was just an idea I got.

I'm not sure if anything is wrong with it, if there's a point beyond arguing. If you seek understanding, that's certainly a good reason to challenge the opinions of others.

It can be healthy to argue, I think.

But I'm not seeking an argument.

I think words are pretty important, actually, and I don't think this is all about semantics. Even if it is, it's nice to establish that we agree if we do - using words.

It's kinda all we have to work with here.

 

[zadokAllen]

I was suggesting that maybe you're seeking an argument where none is needed. Since you're not making arguments that I consider particularly strong, and you say you're "in the mood" - it was just an idea I got.

Well, you`re reading too much into these things. For the record - I meant that today I`m prepared to go to some lengths defending my view, instead of usual ~2.4 posts. It was a joke anyway.

Whole debate was was quite interesting, until we got to the point when I felt you refused to be logical and started using "blind man"/"whatever" type of replies to what - IMO of course - were my valid points.

Hence me getting tired of "words" and semantic devices.

But, no matter…we all do it sometimes, it`s the nature of this medium. Perhaps when telepathy will finally be re-introduced to humans we`ll all agree bit more often (yeah right

As for now, I`m outta here, before we both get sent to some purgatory thread for clouding the topic

 

[DArtagnan]

Well, you`re reading too much into these things. For the record - I meant that today I`m prepared to go to some lengths defending my view, instead of usual ~2.4 posts. It was a joke anyway.

Whole debate was was quite interesting, until we got to the point when I felt you refused to be logical and started using "blind man"/"whatever" type of replies to what - IMO of course - were my valid points.

You didn't get the joke and the j/k I guess

Hence me getting tired of "words" and semantic devices.

But, no matter…we all do it sometimes, it`s the nature of this medium. Perhaps when telepathy will finally be re-introduced to humans we`ll all agree bit more often (yeah right

As for now, I`m outta here, before we both get sent to some purgatory thread for clouding the topic

Have fun.

 

[JDR13]

I would say the Xbox simply isn't being underutilized the way the PS3 is.

 

[DoctorNarrative]

As I said in the news post, the podcast info generally made me very happy. I can see perks adding actual differences in characters which has never existed in TES even in the earlier games. The random quest stuff sounds interesting, though I hope it does not replace real quests with tight design.

All in all the writing and lack of choice and consequence were my main issues with Oblivion. Those are still my main concerns with Skyrim.

 

[Rills]

I haven't played Oblivion and I am well aware that for a great many gamers the scaling was distained. Someone mentioned here that it appears the scaling will be more on the leve of Fallout 3.

Can someone compare and contrast the scaling between the two and what this means for Skyrim? Thanks.

 

[DoctorNarrative]

I haven't played Oblivion and I am well aware that for a great many gamers the scaling was distained. Someone mentioned here that it appears the scaling will be more on the leve of Fallout 3.

Can someone compare and contrast the scaling between the two and what this means for Skyrim? Thanks.

Well basically everything scaled in Oblivion. The armor every NPC or enemy wore, the animals you saw when traveling, the quest rewards, the loot in chests, the loot on bodies. In the rare case where an enemy had to wear something above your level it just magically was not able to be looted when they died. There was no joy in looking for things as everything would be about the same as you had, all the time, without exception. Bandits who wore leather at level 5 wore massive ebony armor at level 40. It made the whole thing feel fake and pointless, to an extent.

Fallout 3 used scaling but in a much less obvious way, more like Morrowind. Enemies scaled but you could still find a tough enemy at low level or a weak enemy at high levels, depending on where you were. Random loot was scaled but you could find hand-placed unique loot as well that was the same whenever you found it. NPC appearance remained the same throughout the game and you could loot anything you saw on people. Dungeons locked to your level when you entered them but still had a greater variety of enemies within. It made for a much more believable world… New Vegas did an even better job of it.

Personally I will always prefer no scaling at all but Fallout 3 was alright, it certainly didn't bother me and was rarely obvious. Skyrim following that example should be fine.

Edit: If you do ever play Oblivion and want to tame the scaling somewhat without radically changing the game I highly recommend Francesco's mod. It alters the scaling so that it is not as obvious and you can still fight weak enemies at high levels or stumble on a hard enemy at low levels, but it doesn't change the core design of the game to a radical degree.

 

[Rills]

Thanks Doc, very clear and concise answer; well written. I've heard and read about Francesco's mod. Did you use it and what were your impressions? Did it scale it more to what one would experience in Morrowind/Fallout 3? Also, any other mods that you recommend?

 

[DoctorNarrative]

Thanks Doc, very clear and concise answer; well written. I've heard and read about Francesco's mod. Did you use it and what were your impressions? Did it scale it more to what one would experience in Morrowind/Fallout 3? Also, any other mods that you recommend?

Francesco's in the mod you want to use if you want to keep the core "vision" of Oblivion intact but make the scaling work a bit better. He gave all the quests in the game a tighter level scale so that some quests would be a bit hard and some quests a bit easy, some enemies a bit hard and some a bit easy, etc.. He also made the scaling enemies in the woods more varied, you might still find wolves at level 20 when you only would fight level 20 enemies at level 20 in the original game. NPCs wear the same clothes throughout the game, for the most part.

There is a rival mod called Obscuro's Oblivion Overhaul that is more of a complete overhaul, as the name suggests. He removed a ton of the scaling altogether, placed enemies by hand to make quests static, placed static items in chests and dungeons and made some map areas dangerous and some easy. As a starting character in other words going directly to a certain town or area would get you killed almost instantly as the enemies in that area might be level 25 with no variation and you are level 1. He also added a ton of new armor and weapons of his or other modders' design, and new enemies.

I have heard the two mods described as: Fracesco's fixes Oblivion, OOO changes it into something else. I think that is accurate. Francesco's works best for me because I don't like radical changes to games, I like to keep them close to the designer's vision and with the proper lore and such. OOO makes too many changes for me and the new items and enemies bug me, as I want to keep Elder Scrolls lore intact. Other people are much less concerned with such matters so they might prefer OOO if they want a more static world. My advice would be to start a new game with Francesco's and see if the scaling bothers you. If it does change over to OOO.

As for other mods the only one I use other than Francesco's is Darn's UI mod. It's essential to getting a good PC user interface. I'm not a big modder though, like I said I like keeping games close to their original vision, so I am not the best one to offer advice on mods if you are the type to really go all out.

 

[zadokAllen]

Nice one - I`ve been planning a replay, saves me looking for a decent scaling mod.

Played on 360 last year without knowing about how broken this system is. Run around for some 30 hrs avoiding the main quest and generally just mocking about. Think I must`ve leveled up too much by jumping/crafting/etc, because when I started finally fighting for real I was toast...game became impossibly difficult.

 

[Dasale]

…
Personally I will always prefer no scaling at all but Fallout 3 was alright, it certainly didn't bother me and was rarely obvious. Skyrim following that example should be fine.
…

No scaling at all can't work, for sure stupid scaling as did Oblivion is a pain, but scaling in RPG is a necessary evil to manage various categories of players, those that will search for any little quest and monsters to kill, and those that will spare more life and get less xp, possibly to keep fresh stuff at replay or to finish faster the main story line.

But scaling is a very difficult challenge to keep monsters at logical levels (for example to not have a rat as strong than a dragon), to avoid the player feel stuck and feel he doesn't improve his character by having the same fight constantly scaled up at a higher difficulty level, to keep a good design of fights ie fights design that are manually setup and not random, and to merge the scaling system with a good difficulty level, and possibly a difficulty level the player could change later.

I know RPG fans tend appreciate no scaling because of the realism feeling this could bring. But it can't work, even for those where it worked the best, it's far work fully well like G2+NOTR for example. Also the good scaling system is compatible with having much tougher places during a level range and not as tough above a certain level. Ie it's compatible with a realistic degree approach.

But, I have yet to see accurate fights design well merged to a good scaling system. The closer to this goal that I remember was BG2 and DAO.

 

[zadokAllen]

No scaling at all can't work, for sure stupid scaling as did Oblivion is a pain, but scaling in RPG is a necessary evil to manage various categories of players, those that will search for any little quest and monsters to kill, and those that will spare more life and get less xp, possibly to keep fresh stuff at replay or to finish faster the main story line.

I prefer the no-scaling solutions. Don`t really see why they can not work as you say.

In an open world like TES I`d like to see area-graded difficulty. It could be argued that it actually closes the world`s openness, but if done cleverly it would work I think.

I don`t dig this philosophy that you should be able to breeze through the main quest. It`s some recent gimmick aimed at casuals.