Opinion - Microsoft Should Fund Pillars of Eternity 3

[Couchpotato]

I think the genre has always been popular - when it's done well.

Well said the RPG genre never died. It just repeats a certain cycle every 5-10 years.

Just like how developer's stopped making TB games, but have now changed course. Kickstarter, crowdfunding, and Early Access have given it new blood and life.

 

[Vaelith]

While RPGs as a genre have been reasonably popular (definitely not as popular as shooters, MOBAs, or sport games, to mention a few) the story-driven cRPG, both in its TB and RtWP variants, has always been a niche genre. Until BG3, that is. The numbers don't lie.

Games like Elder Scrolls, Assassin's Creed or The Witcher did great, but that's not the type of game we're talking about here, I personally barely consider those to be RPGs myself, and that's not the type of game PoE3 would be.

 

[Couchpotato]

It's called trends they usually don't last. Like I said a cycle that repeats itself.

Popular again now but in a decade well we'll see. I foresee twenty years from now we'll be whining on some digital forum app about how they never made another BG RPG.

So enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[lackblogger]

While RPGs as a genre have been reasonably popular (definitely not as popular as shooters, MOBAs, or sport games, to mention a few) the story-driven cRPG, both in its TB and RtWP variants, has always been a niche genre. Until BG3, that is. The numbers don't lie.

Games like Elder Scrolls, Assassin's Creed or The Witcher did great, but that's not the type of game we're talking about here, I personally barely consider those to be RPGs myself, and that's not the type of game PoE3 would be.

Baldur's Gate and Bioware games generally are not considered story-driven games.

They are combat games with constant interactions with companions. The story is the same as in most regular cRPGs, perfunctory and just enough to get the job done.

The concept of a story driven RPG is a relatively new concept, primarily designed to add a layer of protection from criticism to an otherwise disinteresting game. Rubbish loot, rubbish encounters, full of bugs, terrible UI, barebones classes, lightweight mechanical systems, none of that matters if some can just say "Awesome story tho" and then add a few reactive paths.

And then even try to proclaim such a game as the one true masterpiece, because who can argue with subjective enjoyment on narrative?

But not all text is story.

Companion interaction isn't story. Lore isn't story. Waffling NPCs aren't usually story. Story is why you are doing what you are doing and the extent to which this is present everywhere you go.

The whole reason RPGs tend to be lite on story, even when they are heavy on text, is because one of the biggest things people like is random exploration, something that's at the core of original table-top.

Random exploration and tight story telling are pretty much the exact opposite of each other.

 

[Vaelith]

It's called trends they usually don't last. Like I said a cycle that repeats itself.

Popular again now but in a decsde well we'll see. I foresee twenty years from now we'll be whining on some digital forum app about how they never made another BG.

So enjoy it while it lasts.

I'm looking forward to educating people of 20 years in the future about how they should enjoy BG4 for being BG4 and stop living in the past, the glorious days of BG3 they can't move on from.

 

[ChaosTheory]

The main reason Obsidian went with their own universe is due to the irrational clampdown of anything D&D by WotC for almost 2 decades. I think far more people would prefer D&D than a new Pillars game. I certainly would.

Neverwinter Nights 3 makes more sense for Microsoft, at least financially. I think Obsidian would be great at it (again).

And BG3 shows the fanbase is there.

 

[JDR13]

The main reason Obsidian went with their own universe is due to the irrational clampdown of anything D&D by WotC for almost 2 decades. I think far more people would prefer D&D than a new Pillars game. I certainly would.

Neverwinter Nights 3 makes more sense for Microsoft, at least financially. And I think Obsidian would be great at it (again).

And BG3 shows the fanbase is there. And they're hungry.

Of course far more people would want another D&D game. Far more people would want another Harry Potter game too. Those are more mainstream. That's beside the point though

 

[JFarrell71]

People don't like the unfamiliar. They don't think "what if I like it just as much, or even better?" they think "what if I don't like it?" I've probably played more D&D than most people on this board because I play it a lot (played it tonight, in fact), and as such a person, I say that D&D is thoroughly average as a game system. It's not the best, it's just the most ubiquitious. Which is why I end up playing it so much.

I like variety and trying new systems, always have, which means that I'm frequently disappointed by how change averse other gamers tend to be and the effect they have on the market. Planescape Torment is widely considered one of the best RPGs of all time, but if you asked people ahead of time if they wanted it, they would have mostly said no. Too weird. Where are my dragons. All that shit.

 

[lackblogger]

I've probably played more D&D than most people on this board because I play it a lot (played it tonight, in fact), and as such a person, I say that D&D is thoroughly average as a game system. It's not the best, it's just the most ubiquitious. Which is why I end up playing it so much.

I like variety and trying new systems, always have, which means that I'm frequently disappointed by how change averse other gamers tend to be and the effect they have on the market. Planescape Torment is widely considered one of the best RPGs of all time, but if you asked people ahead of time if they wanted it, they would have mostly said no. Too weird. Where are my dragons. All that shit.

By stating D&D is average, are you implying Pillar's is above average? Or just different and somehow different = better? I feel sure different can still = worse?

Planescape Torment is D&D, so surely it's average by your standards?

Pillars had dragons and "all that shit".

As such, I'm not sure what your point here is.

 

[JFarrell71]

By stating D&D is average, are you implying Pillar's is above average? Or just different and somehow different = better? I feel sure different can still = worse?

I'm not comparing them at all. I'm saying that people want every game to use the D&D ruleset and it's not even very good.

"Pillars had dragons and "all that shit".

Planescape Torment doesn't. Keep up. It's the only game I mention in that entire paragraph. It's hard to understand someone's point with that level of reading comprehension.

 

[Drithius]

DnD 5.0 is a pretty poor ruleset, yes. Lower levels are more dictated by dice rolls than any meaningful character building. And higher levels are just as dull from a different perspective: proficiency bonuses across the board just make things feel generic. For all its flaws of being difficult to get the ball rolling on character creation, I do so love 3.5's plethora of tools to make your build truly your own.

Nevertheless, the Pillars' ruleset was even worse, feeling half-baked with 'might', etc. It's hard to fault it though: Josh set out to create a ruleset from scratch and it was always going to be on unequal footing with DnD when the latter had decades of playtesting. Personally, I was always going to give the ruleset leniency for its ambition. What I couldn't abide was the absolute "playing it safe" approach to PoE's setting however; they could have done something so much more than Forgotten Realms lite.

 

[lackblogger]

I'm not comparing them at all. I'm saying that people want every game to use the D&D ruleset and it's not even very good.

"Pillars had dragons and "all that shit".

Planescape Torment doesn't. Keep up. It's the only game I mention in that entire paragraph. It's hard to understand someone's point with that level of reading comprehension.

Yes, you spend the entire time bashing D&D and moaning that's all people want, then use a D&D game to say how things should be 'better'.

Hello?

 

[JFarrell71]

What I couldn't abide was the absolute "playing it safe" approach to PoE's setting however; they could have done something so much more than Forgotten Realms lite.

It's rare that developers take any real chances with the settings of their games, and based on responses, I can understand why. I would personally like to see less generic fantasy too, but people complain bitterly if you stray too far from the basics everyone knows. I think the PoE setting is better than, say, Dragon Age, which has almost no creative inspiration not borrowed from other sources. They did try to do something a bit different with 2, and it sold like crap. We've seen very little of Avowed, but what we have seen looks painfully familiar.

I've kind of resigned myself to the likelihood that no BGS game will ever have a setting half as interesting and unique as Morrowind. They're too afraid of alienating customers, and they're not wrong.

 

[Morrandir]

Nevertheless, the Pillars' ruleset was even worse, feeling half-baked with 'might', etc.

That might look childish, but as soon as I learned that there's a single attribute for both physical and spiritual strength, I stopped trying to get into this ruleset and just somehow went with it.

 

[Telstar]

Why fund their worst? Gimme Tyranny2.

 

[Telstar]

I felt the "too much text for the sake of text" to be a problem with other games like Torment: Tides of Numenera and to an extent, Tyranny, but not with PoE, or Pathfinder for that matter. I guess I was just hungry for reading and playing through proper non-indie CRPGs.

Yes and no, I would save Tyranny and both Pathfinders in this regard. Tides of Numenera was as bad as POE with lots of boring walls of text over another.

 

[HellRazor]

The reason so many computer RPGs don't do very well is that so many of them are just so... mediocre. The ones that rise above mediocrity are the ones that tend to do really well.

 

[Vaelith]

I don't know, I feel every properly budgeted RPG is a n unmissable must play. I love the genre, of course, but anything that had any average production value I played 200+ hours and completed several times, from Dragon Age Origins to PoE, Pathfinder, DOS, etc.

I can't think of a single decently budgeted cRPG that I'd consider to be a failure. Maybe Legends of the Sword Coast? Not sure that one counts. The audience is niche, but at the same time we tend to set the bar so low that it's very easy to meet it. Unless you're Larian, of course, then the expectations become unrealistic and any tiny detail is the biggest game-breaking issue a game ever had, to the same people who voted Elex2 as the best RPG of 2022.

 

[Couchpotato]

Thank you from one who voted Elex 2 for best RPG of 2022.

Frankly I play every RPG myself even Legends of the Sword Coast.

 

[Vaelith]

Hey, that's fine. As far as I know, you love BG3 anyway and accept that it has some flaws because everything does.

I played Legends of the Sword Coast too, and even finished it, but I admit that one was quite mediocre, especially after it acquired the WotC license to make a Faerun-based game and I personally expected a little more.