Shroud of the Avatar - Interview with Garriott

[Wisdom]

Chein will never admit he was wrong on this…

I have hope he will read the posts above and admit he was wrong. Hes not THAT terrible.

 

[rune_74]

I have hope he will read the posts above and admit he was wrong. Hes not THAT terrible.

I never said he was terrible...he just argues pointless things...I don't know him personally

 

[KaosWarMonk]

This is where it gets a bit off….it was never going ti be fully MMO…it was going to have quite a few players when the fully online mode….but it wasn't really an MMO.

That's my recollection. The stated focus was to be SP with some, optional, multiplayer interactions. I've become cynical and reckon he's realized an MMO can generate a longer lasting revenue stream. He'll need to actually produce something good to make that happen though and to date everything I've seen has been laughably underwhelming. If I'd sunk money into this scam you could change the laughing part of the previous sentence to annoyingly.


-kaos

 

[ChienAboyeur]

I have hope he will read the posts above and admit he was wrong. Hes not THAT terrible.

Wrong on what?

Quoting what was quoted already:

On this site, during the coverage of the associated KS, it was noted they were going the MMO path from the pledge thresholds they were added.
It was clear from the start.
What was not was the dropping of SP.

During the KS, it was fully possible to understand that there were going the MMO way. They kept adding thresholds related to a MMO path while being light on anything SP.
Adding threshold pledges is an act (Still some people wishing to be paid with words when they see people acting in a different way, this while benefiting from the context set by the unique experiment that has been running for more than 200 years?)

People who hold the view that, from what was given to be seen, this product was going the MMO path, were right.

All this is just details and irrelevant.

SotA shows breach in contract. There is no claim that it was another way. So it is not possible to be seen as wrong on that point.

The core point is that SotA is not the first crowdfunded project that exhibited breach in contract.

When it happened, people were given an opportunity to take a stance on this issue.

At least one person (and not many more) categorized the situation as a breach of contract.
Many more saw in the doing the fact that devs were listening to players. They changed direction because backers asked them to.

As the result, at least one person (and not many more) are legitimate to state that SotA is just another common crowdfunded project that delivers something different from what it was supposed to.
One standard.

For the others, though, they made a special case out of SotA. Up to now, a change in direction was the sign of devs listening to customers. For SotA, it turned out different, it is no longer listening to customers, it is a breach in contract. Double standards.

Once again, SotA exhibits a breach of contract. That is because of that that it can be told of people holding double standards.
That was the whole point: double standards.
Crowdfunded projects changing direction was cool until SotA.

 

[Wisdom]

Ok I was wrong.
He changed his argument.
This is what happens when I have faith in humanity. I should have known better.

 

[rune_74]

Ok I was wrong.
He changed his argument.
This is what happens when I have faith in humanity. I should have known better.

Are you talking about that gibberish that is barely lucid? He is arguing the same thing, just trying to use a lot more words.

What part of SotA will not be an MMO means that it will not be an MMO?

I mean he seems to ignore that over and over....that's not even getting into the fact he doesn't normally like games like this but feels this is the one he must fight, why?

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Ok I was wrong.
He changed his argument.
This is what happens when I have faith in humanity. I should have known better.

There was zero change in the argument. It is the same used since the series on Sot wronging players because of a change in direction was started.

As not to losing faith in humanity from a petty situation that is actually not, when hailing from that point of the world that declared universal human rights only to better ignore them, that is great. Unshakable.

that's not even getting into the fact he doesn't normally like games like this but feels this is the one he must fight, why?

That has nothing with liking, disliking.
It has to do with the exhibited double standards.
Up to SotA, a change in direction was the proof devs listened to their customers. For Sota, it was kind of a betrayal.

A new bone was added: sota devs are also pinpointed for censoring point of view that dislike the product when this very forum, on which the point is made, shares the same policy of censoring the expression of people who dislike products.

The point of attraction is not Sota. Sota is just another common crowdfunded project that does what a common crowdfunded project does. Nothing to see than what is not already seen.

The point of attraction is the gruesome, shameless exhibition of double standards by people who condemn what they praise in other occasions.

 

[Steinawarjar]

The point of attraction is the gruesome, shameless exhibition of double standards by people who condemn what they praise in other occasions.

Lol what, gruesome double standards?

Seriously?

 

[rune_74]

The point of attraction is the gruesome, shameless exhibition of double standards by people who condemn what they praise in other occasions.

Jesus, hyperbole much?

There is a total difference in changing a combat system people didn't like to changing the genre(you know that it has been stated over and over in this thread they did this, even if you stick your head in the sand).

I'm really shocked you can't see the difference here.

 

[rune_74]

A video showing the mine cart they added to the game....tell me what you think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY5hOTjI-fY

 

[Dez]

Rune_74,

Its a good thing that they're focusing on whats important.

 

[SpoonFULL]

A video showing the mine cart they added to the game….tell me what you think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY5hOTjI-fY

What I think is that the whole thing is the joke of the decade - but by now only the 'thieves' running the show have interest in this crud clawing money through terrible marketing and advertising campaigns (see Richard Ghastly advertising Origin PCs on their latest update - pathetic).

 

[rune_74]

Rune_74,

Its a good thing that they're focusing on whats important.

Another recent outrage by the players…..a purple dye recipe is teachable by mistake it takes away their investment….ahh the important things.


I wonder how long until the devs create an account here to refute these things...

 

[lackblogger]

I honestly don't see what people see in this guy, he's always preferred moving towards simulation and further and further away from even the basic RPG norms. I dunno why he doesn't just start promoting a sims medieval clone and leave all the RPG fans alone.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Jesus, hyperbole much?

There is a total difference in changing a combat system people didn't like to changing the genre(you know that it has been stated over and over in this thread they did this, even if you stick your head in the sand).

I'm really shocked you can't see the difference here.

There is no difference between changing a deal and changing a deal. Of course, people with double standards invent a difference. That's why they have double standards, it is always different for them.

Beside, as stated, from the start, it was clear they were going (despite their words) the MMO way. Then after, they simply fed what people desire to hear. If people kept asking so much if they were going the MMO way or not, that was maybe because the signs they were going the MMO way were many.

They were going the MMO way, people desired to hear different, they provided what people desired to hear.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Another recent outrage by the players…..a purple dye recipe is teachable by mistake it takes away their investment….ahh the important things.


I wonder how long until the devs create an account here to refute these things…

One important thing should not be this is an alpha and such riddled with bugs?
Ah yes, the important things...

 

[rune_74]

One important thing should not be this is an alpha and such riddled with bugs?
Ah yes, the important things…

It's not an alpha anymore. If you knew half as much as you claimed you would have known by now that they have actually went away from that title system. We will never get a beta either as it is now an early access title...this allows them to develop forever without you know the normal levels of development. Matter of fact the devs said this is such a new way of developing normal terms don't apply to them and they may never see a true release....still feel good about that Chein? How logical is that?

This is a beta, or should be if they used those terms.

Once again this is you going off all half cocked without full knowledge of the situation as you always do.

 

[rune_74]

There is no difference between changing a deal and changing a deal. Of course, people with double standards invent a difference. That's why they have double standards, it is always different for them.

Beside, as stated, from the start, it was clear they were going (despite their words) the MMO way. Then after, they simply fed what people desire to hear. If people kept asking so much if they were going the MMO way or not, that was maybe because the signs they were going the MMO way were many.

They were going the MMO way, people desired to hear different, they provided what people desired to hear.

Jesus, do you even read what you write? You basically said it is ok they promised another thing and delivered something different....exactly what all of us have been saying. What on earth do you mean there is no difference between changing a deal and changing a deal? Of course there is no difference they are exactly the same words!

I'm seriously starting to question your logic behind all of this. I don't even think you care about this game or that it did it. Since you seem to only to address my posts now I'm starting to see a patern.

 

[rune_74]

I thought I would share what the community manager had to say about people outside of their forums:

"The forums here are sane (more or less ) because we work hard with the community to help keep them a moderate and safe place for all players. Moderation is here not to silence opinion, but to remove toxic behavior (personal attacks, aggressive behavior, spam, etc. etc.). Sometimes it's easier to blanket state "they're silencing negativity!", but it can be easily conflated then with toxic posts that go beyond normal criticism.

Seeing how poor Reddit's toxicity has become is a prime example of what happens when you don't have moderation in place and the few haters can get together and build upon each others' statements. Unfortunately we cannot moderate Reddit (as far as I know), so when someone feels they were unfairly moderated and don't take responsibility for their actions first, then they go somewhere else to scream about it... and in the case of the few individuals as suggested here, they go right to Reddit. Reddit is also sort of meant to be dev-hands off... it's sometimes frowned upon for devs to do anything there.

Fortunately not all posters on Reddit are toxic, just a handful. It is still really sad to me that we can't clean it up and make it a productive discussion and debate platform again. The best suggestion I can give to everyone here is to help us post positive or constructive topics on Reddit, including criticisms... just not the toxic direct insult bashing kinds of posts that would warrant moderation. If we can drive more positive discussion on Reddit, it will check and balance those who seek to just cause disruption of the community."


Apparently, he wishes he could have us banned there too instead of allowing us to post anything about the game that they feel is unfair. Lets not address the concerns or respond to the critism lets blanket them as trouble makers and send your minions out to spread the good word.

The funny thing is I have been harrased by one of their fans who made threatening comments about my kids, I made a complaint to the company about it and they shrugged it off as him just saying thinsg....still a valued member of their community.

You can't make this stuff up....

 

[Dasale]

I don't understand the persistent BarkingDog bashing on crowd funding. I don't mean the arguing is wrong, it's the heavy insistence that is wrong, in my point of view.

Is AAA market or indie market brought me any Wasteland 2, Divine Divinity, Dragonfall (in fact I even add Shadowrun Returns that get unfairly bashed in those forums and in my opinion) or even Pillars of Eternity (despite I'm not super fan of it)? Nope, not at all.

Let see, AAA CRPG market, it's void, there's stuff but different genres.

For Indie market there's few potential exceptions, but none has an A production level, and even more none offer anything similar. I include Underrail, The Age of Decadence, any Spiderweb stuff, any Eschalon Book, and I don't even consider Serpent in the Staglands or Inquisitor to worth any comparison.

So for sure there's negative aspects in Crowd Funding but just bash and ignore is either forget what was CRPG between 2000 and 2010 (roughly), either feel at ease with AAA or indie CRPG market.

So what I mean? Many arguing applied to Crowd Funding could be applied to AAA games:
- Promise unfilled, ton and I include many with a heavy players hyping ending bore me to death. No way demo solve the problem, neither are reviews or players feedback.
- Disappointed buy, in fact a lot more disappointment from releases buy than from crowd funding pledging.
- Incoherency in gameplay design, common that's not a characteristics of crowd funding, I'll skip the long list.
- Change in gameplay direction, common as if it's not happen too with non crowd funding projects. It could be better and better hidden but it's been so obvious in many cases that it's hard to believe it doesn't happen.

So yeah crowd funding is showing traps and it worth highlight it, but bash and bash crowd funding without relativize that no way AAA or indie market (no Early Access/Game In Dev) is more clean, is non sense, in my point of view.