PoE Thoughts/discussion/first impressions of Pillars of Eternity!

[Kordanor]

@Trasher: What I am taking about is visibility of their queue.
If you like you can also call it action processor.
Each character only executes one action at a time.
Once the action is done, the next action from the action queue is loaded into the action processor. If there is nothing in the queue it goes back to auto attack, if autoattack was the last action.
The thing is that the action processor doesn't finish the current action at the same moment you get the notification and the pause.

Somtimes you have the auto-attack symbold shown next to your hitbar. If you press pause and then give them a command it will not always immediately abort the attack (while paused) and replace it with the new action. The new action however is circled in the spellbook. The change comes when you continue the combat again. But this is not always the case, sometimes it takes effect immediately. There is also a time, when the current action is "locked down", this is when the action is already underway. You cannot switch to a different action at that time. If you give commands there, similar as being prone, these are queued up.

Normally it should be like:
1. Pause
2. You enter an Action
3. The Action is then immediately shown in the action display
4. Once the action is completed it should move out of the action display
5. At the same time the system should autopause the game.

3, 4 and 5 do not apply reliably. Sometimes they work with a delay.

 

[Thrasher]

Hmm it works for me like that. The thing is if you allow the character to take an autoattack action, you can't necessarily abort it in favor of another attack. You may have to wait to let it finish b4 your queued action goes into effect. When I auto-pause on action completed, I never (and I mean that absolutely), get a delay except of course for nominal casting time.

Now, I don't pay attention to the little icons specifying the current action, because I think those are unreliable. On the other hand, auto-pause on action complete has been MUCH more reliable.

Perhaps those buggy icons are what's causing confusion? Or perhaps mistaking casting time for some other delay?

 

[Kordanor]

It might be that the icons are buggy - but they are the main feedback you are getting.
However I also had several cases where I set up a new action before the message and autopause actually came.
So Character 1 gets autopause, I check my characters, and also set up a new action for character 2 who finished his spell as well.
Then Character 2 gets autopause.

Btw: Set the game to autopause on extraordinary defense and shoot with a blunderbuss...it will autopause the game 6 times. Once of each projectile...

 

[Thrasher]

Ha! re blunderbuss. I haven't used one yet.

Let me tell you, I only watch the combat log. I totally ignore those icons. They could be confusing.

But the log is odd as well. There's two messages. One that an action has taken place and another saying the action is completed. You must ignore the first message and wait for the second before taking another action. That's what the autopause option does. It waits for the second message before telling you the action is truly over. That's what the player (I) should be paying attention to. Ignore the first message. It means nothing from what I can tell.

If I don't ignore that first message, and slap a command into the queue for immediate execution, that can cause problems…

 

[ChienAboyeur]

It may have to do with recovery time between each action.
The completion message telling that a character is ready to take another action after recovery time.

I seldom used the back log as I played the game real time with pause.

The visual feedback is lacking though. It is another feature that indicates that real time with pause gameplay was not paid attention.

Which is fully understood as players pressured to get the game oriented to "ugoigo" kind of gameplay.

Actually, PoE is a TB game released with a RTwP system, which is the problem

PoE is a game that was supposed to be real time with pause but could not be that way because "ugoigo" players cant get their priorities right, and had to pressure the developper into shaping a game to suit their tastes, which do not include real time with pause.

 

[DArtagnan]

PoE is a game that was supposed to be real time with pause but could not be that way because "ugoigo" players cant get their priorities right, and had to pressure the developper into shaping a game to suit their tastes, which do not include real time with pause.

No, it's a TB game that fans of BG pressured Obsidian into changing to a RTwP game

In short, you and people like you are the reason it's not particularly well designed in terms of the combat system.

Of course, that's not entirely true.

I just think it's fun to argue like you do

 

[Archangel]

Which however not work 100% perfectly.
My fighter had a shield which triggered an ability, so it triggered autopause for ability each time the ability was used, which was like each couple of seconds (bash).

I also don't like that it's not really synchronous with the display of the abilities they are using. Sometimes when you are giving an order, it is not queued up visible, instead you still see the sword attack icon. Then sometimes you get the "ability is finished" message and autopause, but the ability already was finished before. But was not removed from the display. Or I think I had it with aloth that I got the autopause but I wasnt able to cast his second standard ability as the first one was still blocked out.

Most of this could have been solved by making an action queue visible and adjust the autopause to this action queue.

Yes, I noticed this as well. It is irritating. You should report this as a bug on obsidian forums.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Until someone does the lighthouse top floor battle realtime no pause in a video, I won't believe such claims either. and slow mode doesn't count.

Is it the battle that allows to close the wailing banshee quest line?

If so, it is fully possible to play that fight in real time, no pause. Not only it is possible to play it, it is also straightforward as the involved level of micromanagement is low.
I did it multiple times on hard settings at various party levels.

Spoiler

Considering the opposition, trying to control the opposition is a waste.
Better to be prepared to get everyone engaged at some point.
In this regard, even though classes that are not supposed to stand their ground can get into that fight when they suitably are buffed, front liners and intermediate classes lead to lighter micromanagement.
A composition as this one: fighter, barbarian, paladin, chanter, priest, psyker or druid gives a low micro requirement.
All it takes is to position the spell casters in way they cast without moving to cover the party. It might mean putting the priest at the center of a loose ring, this to reduce the micro, which is low.
Once done, triggering the battle, then using buffing spells like circle of protection, scroll of defense, scroll of endurance regeneration, scroll of valour (to show that actually the priest is not even needed) then using appropriate splash damage from psyker or druid to shorten the fight after a debuff to weaken the attacked defense(not even required,will pay though)
That's all it takes.
This fight requires no repositioning.
The lower level this fight is taken, the more the party will benefit from having crafted gear to deal with this type of enemy.
Fights that cant be fought in real time with mouse only as it only requires to click on portrait and no repositioning.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

No, it's a TB game that fans of BG pressured Obsidian into changing to a RTwP game

In short, you and people like you are the reason it's not particularly well designed in terms of the combat system.

Of course, that's not entirely true.

BG was turn-based. It was not "ugoigo" type.
This game, when introduced as a KS, was promoted as a real time with pause game. Not as a "ugoigo" game. At this stage, backers were informed of what the game was supposed to be. Yet, it did not prevent players from pressuring the developper to cater to "ugoigo" needs before securing the minimal interface required to play real time.

I just think it's fun to argue like you do

That would take arguing the same way, which is not done. That would suppose being able to connect with reality now and then, instead in sheltering in a tower of illusion. As shown by the previous comment.

 

[DArtagnan]

It is done, but you're too subjective to see it

 

[Thrasher]

Is it the battle that allows to close the wailing banshee quest line?

If so, it is fully possible to play that fight in real time, no pause. Not only it is possible to play it, it is also straightforward as the involved level of micromanagement is low.
I did it multiple times on hard settings at various party levels.

Spoiler

Considering the opposition, trying to control the opposition is a waste.
Better to be prepared to get everyone engaged at some point.
In this regard, even though classes that are not supposed to stand their ground can get into that fight when they suitably are buffed, front liners and intermediate classes lead to lighter micromanagement.
A composition as this one: fighter, barbarian, paladin, chanter, priest, psyker or druid gives a low micro requirement.
All it takes is to position the spell casters in way they cast without moving to cover the party. It might mean putting the priest at the center of a loose ring, this to reduce the micro, which is low.
Once done, triggering the battle, then using buffing spells like circle of protection, scroll of defense, scroll of endurance regeneration, scroll of valour (to show that actually the priest is not even needed) then using appropriate splash damage from psyker or druid to shorten the fight after a debuff to weaken the attacked defense(not even required,will pay though)
That's all it takes.
This fight requires no repositioning.
The lower level this fight is taken, the more the party will benefit from having crafted gear to deal with this type of enemy.
Fights that cant be fought in real time with mouse only as it only requires to click on portrait and no repositioning.

With level 4 characters? Video, please.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Predicted.
Should have written a comment in advance.
People make a statement, if ever facts go against them, they add a condition to fall back on their feet.

One quality of the combat system is that it allows to define fights relatively to the party level. It means that fights might be designed for a party of this or that level.

In a game like PoE, this also means as the steath system is expected to allow the player to sneak around fights.

It is a player's decision to take the fight at any level.
The scrolls used in the fight hints at the entry level by the way.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

It is done, but you're too subjective to see it

Just like a skeleton that cant see and cant be blinded.

 

[DArtagnan]

Just like a skeleton that cant see and cant be blinded.

Exactly

 

[Thrasher]

Predicted.
Should have written a comment in advance.

Wouldn't have helped, anyway.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

PoE impressed as if the developpers collected various common reproaches made to games in similar genres and worked to avoid making those mistakes.

One common reproach: overdoing banters. Banters there are in this game and some find them not varied enough, not numerous enough, or repeative (as a bit of information, during the second walkthroug, only got one repeat)

Another reproach: PCs should not be able to take any fight as any comes up.
Partially validated in PoE as one quality of the combat system is to enable to scale a fight relatively to the party level.
Same here, this feature is used to cover the unwillingness to play a real time with pause game in real time with pause.

Common sense still got that one right a long time ago: a good servant does not give what the master wants, a good servant gives what the master desires.

 

[Kordanor]

Another reproach: PCs should not be able to take any fight as any comes up.
Partially validated in PoE as one quality of the combat system is to enable to scale a fight relatively to the party level.

First I have to say that I am not 100% if I understand correctly as you tend to write very swollen and I am not a native english speaker.

Are you saying that there is no way to face fights which you are unable to beat?
Because the game offers several ways to get into combats you cannot survive as it is structured very open. E.g. you can get bounties early on, but there is no way to do it at that point. You can go very deep into Od Nua, but at some point you will be unable to go further. You can immediately travel to zones you will not be able to survive.

The optimal path of course is scaled to your level as in all games. Your character have levels, and some values increase with level (+items & enchantments), and your opponents have levels as well.

Same here, this feature is used to cover the unwillingness to play a real time with pause game in real time with pause.

I don't get what you mean by that and I don't see any causal relationship between the combat system and the openness/scaling of the world.

 

[Thiraury]

Just finished it. This is the kickstarter game that i've enjoyed most so far. Enjoyed it more then original sin. Took me 55 hours according to steam. Combat could've been abit more rewarding. The story could've been better. I'm not really sure I understand the ending right. Those nitpicks aside, it was a great run.

Played as a dual wield dagger rogue which was great fun. Had to micro my position in the battlefield alot and it was very rewarding to do so. Had by far the most damage dealt of all characters by the end of the game.

About the ending:

Spoiler

So, there are no gods? But there are very powerful beings (created by men) which has godlike powers that people believe are gods? I fail to see why that is such a great revealing? Thoughts on that?

 

[Carnifex]

People who think rogues bring nothing to the team probably aren't playing them well. Life as a rogue is dark, gritty, nasty, and quite satisfying! Bows are for tossers, get in there with your daggers and carve up some meat. Elbows deep ftw!

 

[Kordanor]

Yeah, the damage of rogues is insane in PoE.

Btw: Patch 1.04 is up. Notes here:
https://forums.obsidian.net/blog/7/entry-180-patch-notes-104-104-beta-2-now-available-on-steam/