Warhammer Online - 750,000 and Rising
- Thread starter Dhruin
- Start date
Wow, don't be so positive man!
When AoC came out, after a while basically everyone said the game was unfinished. That is not the case with WAR, and even if people find other reasons not to play it, it makes the comparison a very bad one. I got SO tired of people bashing the game exactly the way you did now even before it came out, and now when it's released it feels even less justified. My reason to believe so is that the game is fun. That simple.
When AoC came out, after a while basically everyone said the game was unfinished. That is not the case with WAR, and even if people find other reasons not to play it, it makes the comparison a very bad one. I got SO tired of people bashing the game exactly the way you did now even before it came out, and now when it's released it feels even less justified. My reason to believe so is that the game is fun. That simple.
Bashing is fun, anyway, and definitively easier than building something up.
It IS fun. Atm. I just dont think being the simple game it is the fun will keep people too long when it lacks complexity. The RVR is a blast, but how often can one conquer the same keep over and over just for the sake of? I would not rate it entirely bad, maybe 7.5 of 10, but I just dont see the big, complex world simulation to keep me. It remains to be seen if so many are so easy to be entertained. Who knows, but I am not.
skavenhorde
Little BRO Rat
"It remains to be seen if so many are so easy to be entertained."
LMAO, is that a shot at anyone who likes this? Could you be anymore condescending?
Anyways, I used to be someone who hates MMOs with a passion and avoided them like the plague. But I tried this one for one reason only, it's the only warhammer RPG available and if you can't tell from my name I'm a little bit of a fan of GW's world. I got to say I'm impressed. There is none of that building crap to sell that I've always heard about. There is only questing and flat out fun. I never thought I would say that about a MMO but it is fun.
I have no idea what your talking about when you say a complex world. Do you want to build stuff to sell? Go to Ultima Online I hear they have tons of that crap there. You can go to work in real life and then come home and go to work in the game, yippeee. This is Warhammer, no pansies making tools allowed. You fight and live to fight another day or you die (and still live to fight another day
)
It's the classic good vs evil. Hell, I love how they have the "who is in control of this realm." You check out the different levels and see where your team isn't doing so well and go help out(if you have a character that is at that tier). I don't know if they had that in WOW or the other online games but I love that feature. It makes fighting for the realm more fun.
LMAO, is that a shot at anyone who likes this? Could you be anymore condescending?
Anyways, I used to be someone who hates MMOs with a passion and avoided them like the plague. But I tried this one for one reason only, it's the only warhammer RPG available and if you can't tell from my name I'm a little bit of a fan of GW's world. I got to say I'm impressed. There is none of that building crap to sell that I've always heard about. There is only questing and flat out fun. I never thought I would say that about a MMO but it is fun.
I have no idea what your talking about when you say a complex world. Do you want to build stuff to sell? Go to Ultima Online I hear they have tons of that crap there. You can go to work in real life and then come home and go to work in the game, yippeee. This is Warhammer, no pansies making tools allowed. You fight and live to fight another day or you die (and still live to fight another day
)It's the classic good vs evil. Hell, I love how they have the "who is in control of this realm." You check out the different levels and see where your team isn't doing so well and go help out(if you have a character that is at that tier). I don't know if they had that in WOW or the other online games but I love that feature. It makes fighting for the realm more fun.
There are very few MMOs where crafting/building anything is required. It's just a hobby. Just one more option on how to obtain gear. In WAR it's not even an option.
And that, I believe, is what elikal is aiming at. In games like WoW, there's so much content, and so much variety between the classes, there's always something new to do. Yes, a lot of it is a grind, but then again, that goes for all MMOs. In WAR, you have less complex classes (i.e all tanks are very similar, all healers are very similar, etc), and generally less viable gameplay options. Yes, there is RvR, which is loads of fun, but I refuse to believe people can do years of it and still find it fun. That's what MMOs are all about - years of fun, not days or weeks, years.
My guess is, WAR and AoC will both be in trouble when WoW: Wrath of the Lich King hits. They just don't have enough content to compete month after month.
Maybe one of them will end up being a real challenger, we'll see.
And that, I believe, is what elikal is aiming at. In games like WoW, there's so much content, and so much variety between the classes, there's always something new to do. Yes, a lot of it is a grind, but then again, that goes for all MMOs. In WAR, you have less complex classes (i.e all tanks are very similar, all healers are very similar, etc), and generally less viable gameplay options. Yes, there is RvR, which is loads of fun, but I refuse to believe people can do years of it and still find it fun. That's what MMOs are all about - years of fun, not days or weeks, years.
My guess is, WAR and AoC will both be in trouble when WoW: Wrath of the Lich King hits. They just don't have enough content to compete month after month.
Maybe one of them will end up being a real challenger, we'll see.
While WAR has less (but not none) crafting alternatives than many games, exploration and achieving things in general are much more catered to than normal with the Tome of Knowledge mechanic it has. It also has high-level PvE content, but above all it has, at max level, 9 outdoor RvR zones and 6 fortresses (of which 3 will be active at any one time which gives more focused and large-scale PvP, while also being pretty fluid in how fast the battlefront moves), 2 capital cities with mixed RvR and PvE content when you reach them, and 9 different scenarios (which as of yet don't feel like the same kind of grind I think WoW's battlegrounds were).
I'd say this is content enough to keep us occupied at least until the first major content upgrade.
Since WAR hasn't been out for years yet I can't say for sure that it won't fail epicly in just a couple of months, but how easy wouldn't it be to say the same things you just did about raiding in WoW? Still, that kept me occupied for almost 3 years or so. I really appreciate a game which is pretty similar to WoW in many ways but that has overall design and mechanics in place to shift the focus from PvE to PvP.
Also, I don't think WoW is a bad game, I just got so fed up with everything it had to offer. While this will happen at some time with WAR as well I really think it will be years we are talking about, not months. In its current state I think WAR has a lot more of endgame content to offer than WoW did at launch, and looking at the rate of all the patches and hotfixes for WAR and how Mythic has handled DAoC I don't think there's much reason to worry yet.
And of course Lich King will be a threat to the subscriber numbers, but paraphrasing the Obama campaign I "just can't afford four more years of the same"
I'd say this is content enough to keep us occupied at least until the first major content upgrade.
Please. Look at how people still play Counter-Strike, arenas in WoW, EVE Online etc. Human opponents in itself makes content dynamic, rather than the static PvE.Maylander said:
Since WAR hasn't been out for years yet I can't say for sure that it won't fail epicly in just a couple of months, but how easy wouldn't it be to say the same things you just did about raiding in WoW? Still, that kept me occupied for almost 3 years or so. I really appreciate a game which is pretty similar to WoW in many ways but that has overall design and mechanics in place to shift the focus from PvE to PvP.
Also, I don't think WoW is a bad game, I just got so fed up with everything it had to offer. While this will happen at some time with WAR as well I really think it will be years we are talking about, not months. In its current state I think WAR has a lot more of endgame content to offer than WoW did at launch, and looking at the rate of all the patches and hotfixes for WAR and how Mythic has handled DAoC I don't think there's much reason to worry yet.
And of course Lich King will be a threat to the subscriber numbers, but paraphrasing the Obama campaign I "just can't afford four more years of the same"
WoW was rubbish when it was released, behind both AoC and WAR in my opinion, but the competition was also rubbish.
As for human opponents - yes, that's true, but only where you have to push it to the limit. Farming Alterac Valley in WoW is nowhere near fun anymore, since both sides are merely a whole bunch of solo grinders, completely without leadership and/or tactics. I consider it far more likely that RvR will feel like AV than Counter Strike or Starcraft - you're simply not facing well organized, skilled players doing their best to beat you. Maybe for some time, but it'll probably end up being a mindless zerg in the end.
Truth be told, RvR does have potential though, if serious guilds on both sides are fairly equal, and fight back and forth with well organized raids. However, I just don't see that happening - Chaos will probably have 75%+ of the players, and will utterly destroy Order to the point where they no longer bother doing RvR since they just lose all day long. That's the problem of having anything server based, instead of scaling it down to arena/battleground/scenario: It's so sensitive to the balance of the player base.
For now, the grass will seem greener for a lot of old WoW veterans, but in the end only time will tell if they stick around or go back to WoW to hit lvl 80 or play Death Knights.
As for human opponents - yes, that's true, but only where you have to push it to the limit. Farming Alterac Valley in WoW is nowhere near fun anymore, since both sides are merely a whole bunch of solo grinders, completely without leadership and/or tactics. I consider it far more likely that RvR will feel like AV than Counter Strike or Starcraft - you're simply not facing well organized, skilled players doing their best to beat you. Maybe for some time, but it'll probably end up being a mindless zerg in the end.
Truth be told, RvR does have potential though, if serious guilds on both sides are fairly equal, and fight back and forth with well organized raids. However, I just don't see that happening - Chaos will probably have 75%+ of the players, and will utterly destroy Order to the point where they no longer bother doing RvR since they just lose all day long. That's the problem of having anything server based, instead of scaling it down to arena/battleground/scenario: It's so sensitive to the balance of the player base.
For now, the grass will seem greener for a lot of old WoW veterans, but in the end only time will tell if they stick around or go back to WoW to hit lvl 80 or play Death Knights.
Those are all good points, but I know that at least I will be playing in a serious guild (my old WoW guild actually) and my server has a good number of organized Order guilds. I think that will be what much of it comes down to in the end as well, the number of organized, rather than overall, players on each side. It seems that if you have a certain threshold of organized players at a keep, randoms can join in and still do some good.
(Also, scenarios right now give a larger proportion of the Victory Points needed to move the battlefront, which ensures much of the competition takes places in a more balanced environment.)
(Also, scenarios right now give a larger proportion of the Victory Points needed to move the battlefront, which ensures much of the competition takes places in a more balanced environment.)
Aye, I agree, with some solid guilds on both sides, it might be enough to make it balanced (-> fun).
In fact, being in a good community can make almost any MMO fun, because the people you play with are fun, friendly folks (I don't even want to think about how many hours I've been sitting around just chatting in various online games - idling in Ironforge/Orgrimmar anyone?).
In fact, being in a good community can make almost any MMO fun, because the people you play with are fun, friendly folks (I don't even want to think about how many hours I've been sitting around just chatting in various online games - idling in Ironforge/Orgrimmar anyone?).
Orgrimmar ?
Shouldn't it rather read Orgrammar ?
Or ... Grammar ? Perhaps ?
Shouldn't it rather read Orgrammar ?
Or ... Grammar ? Perhaps ?
Orgrimmar is a city, the capitol of the Orcs, created by Thrall in Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne, named after the legendary Warchief, Orgrim Doomhammer.
Melvil
Super Duper Super Sweet
It's popular to be a harbinger of doom when a new MMO hits the streets, but this time most of them will be wrong. WAR may not have 10 million subs in 2 years, but it will have around 500,000. The game has many play options, and if you don't have a big investment in WoW, the only other options out there is probably LoTRO. WAR blows that game away.
The only other option? Short list (far from complete):
- Eve
- Age of Conan
- Pirates of the Burning Sea
- EverQuest 2 (last add-on was released in 2007 I believe, so yes, people still play it)
- Guild Wars (still a viable option)
- Lineage 2 (same as EQ2)
- Dark Age of Camelot (same as EQ2)
- Tabula Rasa
And so on and so forth. If you need a new fantasy MMO and it has to be less than a year old, you'll end up with AoC or WAR, but there's no reason to start a fresh MMO. In fact, when it comes to MMOs it's usually a safe bet to wait a year or so before giving it a go, since they almost always lack content at the start anyway.
- Eve
- Age of Conan
- Pirates of the Burning Sea
- EverQuest 2 (last add-on was released in 2007 I believe, so yes, people still play it)
- Guild Wars (still a viable option)
- Lineage 2 (same as EQ2)
- Dark Age of Camelot (same as EQ2)
- Tabula Rasa
And so on and so forth. If you need a new fantasy MMO and it has to be less than a year old, you'll end up with AoC or WAR, but there's no reason to start a fresh MMO. In fact, when it comes to MMOs it's usually a safe bet to wait a year or so before giving it a go, since they almost always lack content at the start anyway.
Thanks for the explanation, Maylander.
During reading the manual of Blackhawk (English: Blackthorne, don't know why this game has a different name here), I realized that the people at Blizzard were never good at inventing names ...
During reading the manual of Blackhawk (English: Blackthorne, don't know why this game has a different name here), I realized that the people at Blizzard were never good at inventing names ...
True!
At least they're better than a lot of comics, where the villains are often called Dr. Doom, Mr. Doom, Von Doom.. oh, and Bob, the killer gold fish.
At least they're better than a lot of comics, where the villains are often called Dr. Doom, Mr. Doom, Von Doom.. oh, and Bob, the killer gold fish.
I've been playing WAR since it started, and now have a rank 22 DoK. I'm going to think back to when I was playing WoW for a month and compare my experiences.
In WAR, after about a month
- I have more money than I know what do with
-- conclusion: a fundamentally unbalanced economy with imminent inflation
- I feel like my toon is just like everybody else's
-- conclusion: greater variety of gear and crafting output needs to be created
- I'm down about the immersion of RvR - other than minor region bonuses, open warfare feels more like a Sisyphusian endless tug-of-war in a sandbox than real war
-- conclusion: tangible and profound consequences should be added to wining/losing
In contrast, in WoW I constantly felt poor, under-equipped and inadequate. However, the significant difference was that in WoW I knew that there *were* items out there that were significant upgrades to outfit. In WAR, there doesn't appear to be any sign of such loot at rank 20 (half way through the PvE rank ladder).
I think a balance needs to be achieved between grinding and loot upgrades. Sure, the best 1-2% of loot should be reserved for the hard core grinders, but significant upgrades should be made available for some reasonable input of effort.
WAR makes the statement that the individual member of a unit is not as important as the teamwork and strategy of the unit (all infantry men are the same, etc). But if so, and individualized growth and achievement are secondary to realm-wide victories, the victories (or losses) must have significant impact on the realm.
For example, a victory might mean
- appearance of much better loot at the vendors (presumably looted from the bodies of your enemies)
- appearance of victory flags, banners and other decorations around towns and cities
- heads of enemy players (complete with name and rank) decorating walls of cities and towns
Seriously, if I'm a king of RvR, I want to be able to wear my enemy's body parts as a necklace. Forget a chalice - give me a head on a stick I can wave in front of my opponents. Want to buy your head back? That'll be 10g.
In WAR, after about a month
- I have more money than I know what do with
-- conclusion: a fundamentally unbalanced economy with imminent inflation
- I feel like my toon is just like everybody else's
-- conclusion: greater variety of gear and crafting output needs to be created
- I'm down about the immersion of RvR - other than minor region bonuses, open warfare feels more like a Sisyphusian endless tug-of-war in a sandbox than real war
-- conclusion: tangible and profound consequences should be added to wining/losing
In contrast, in WoW I constantly felt poor, under-equipped and inadequate. However, the significant difference was that in WoW I knew that there *were* items out there that were significant upgrades to outfit. In WAR, there doesn't appear to be any sign of such loot at rank 20 (half way through the PvE rank ladder).
I think a balance needs to be achieved between grinding and loot upgrades. Sure, the best 1-2% of loot should be reserved for the hard core grinders, but significant upgrades should be made available for some reasonable input of effort.
WAR makes the statement that the individual member of a unit is not as important as the teamwork and strategy of the unit (all infantry men are the same, etc). But if so, and individualized growth and achievement are secondary to realm-wide victories, the victories (or losses) must have significant impact on the realm.
For example, a victory might mean
- appearance of much better loot at the vendors (presumably looted from the bodies of your enemies)
- appearance of victory flags, banners and other decorations around towns and cities
- heads of enemy players (complete with name and rank) decorating walls of cities and towns
Seriously, if I'm a king of RvR, I want to be able to wear my enemy's body parts as a necklace. Forget a chalice - give me a head on a stick I can wave in front of my opponents. Want to buy your head back? That'll be 10g.
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