ELEX - Gameplay Demo

[NewDArt]

Random loot can work in combination with hand-placed loot, but it can also ruin the exploration satisfaction by giving the player the wrong items at inappropriate moments.

The best loot progression experience is the one where the rewards match the investment. Meaning, if it's from combat - then the hardest fights should yield the best items (in general - not necessarily always) - and if it's from exploration, then the items that are hardest to find should be the most interesting.

It's no good to have an epic encounter with a fear-inducing troll that you've spent hours progressing your character towards beating - only to be rewarded with a shiny flaming sword that gets replaced a few minutes later by a superior weapon you find in a trashcan.

 

[Deleted User]

What DArt said.

I enjoy random loot in games where it works well, like Sacred 2 and Diablo-style RPGs, where the goal is to drown in piles and piles of magical items. But in a PB-style open-world with a high attention to detail, a somewhat "low" or more realistic fantasy setting, hand-placed is the way to go.

It's also exciting to me because it really hasn't been done to this scale in an RPG that I can remember. Morrowind had a lot of it, like legendary items all being hand-placed, many other items, too, but I don't think any RPG has done 100% hand-placed loot in a world this large, essentially twice the size of Morrowind.

 

[Morrandir]

Yep.

And to me it's equally important that the finding place makes some sense. Superior weapons in trashcans in crowded areas are immersion breakers, just like fresh and juicy apples in an ancient tomb.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

"I have no idea what people liked about that crap and going by all the different opinions of the game on the internet it seems to me like the stupid fans do not really know either because if you ask two people you get at least three opinions".

Really said that, huh..exact words? Seems a pretty dumb move, Gothic nostalgia is what keeps them alive, for most part.
But it explains a few things, PB seem to be drifting, like someone trying to cook a meal he once had, but does not really know the process.
Should be pretty obvious how to put them back on track, but I'm too lazy to write it down.

 

[Deleted User]

No, he didn't say that. Here's the interview.

http://www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=248

There is huge fanbase for your series like Gothic – especially in Europe – people are constantly looking for something new concerning your games. Did you ever consider continuing with Gothic series or was Elex your primary goal?

Bjorn: When you ask three people what was the great thing about Gothic, you get five opinions. The central term you always hear is “because of the atmosphere of the game it was so good”. We analyzed all previous titles and we think there were many mind-blowing situations in the game. We want to put all of these cool situations together in one game now. And the reason why we don’t do another Gothic title is that we want to do Elex.

Oh, and I forgot to mention. There will be at least one city liberation like Gothic III in the game.

And the cities will be huge.

 

[TomRon]

Careful now Fluent, don't get too excited by what you've heard, wait until they actually deliver. If it's all they promise it will be, THEN you can hype away all you want.

 

[Deleted User]

Eh, just sharing some facts. They have shown a lot of the game + talked about it interviews. Even what I know of the game is little compared to some other PB fans. I have purposely kept myself from learning too much as well as barely watching any videos to keep from spoiling anything.

I already know I'll like it. The PB/Gothic/Risen style of RPG is one of my favorite RPG designs.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

We analyzed all previous titles and we think there were many mind-blowing situations in the game. We want to put all of these cool situations together in one game now.

Can't see where he's coming up with that.
Giant emotional drama, "Wow" revelation in plot, character history or motivations, "epic scenes", etc...is practically Bioware's trademark. ( just watch ME II suicide misssion ending and compare it to anything PB has ever done, of similar regard)
Doesn't mean PB didn't have something like that in their games, on rare occasion, but this heavily depends on strong presentation and that was never their strong point.

Instead of giant, ( go wherever you want, whenever you want!) as open as possible world...Gothic I/II had a clear narrative structure, that gave it sharper focus.
Can't really remember a name of even a single secondary npc in cities ( or even the name of any city on that matter) of Gothic III, or last two Risens...in comparison Khorinis was far more memorable because of simple, small side quests that connected it's citizens and some extended over the course of the game. (That is also why upper quarter was dull/lifeless compared to lower areas)
And the side quests had elements of adventure games...finding spontaneous solutions through direct gameplay ( example: you can gain entry, by just swimming to docks in Khorinis).

Early Gothic games had a lot of clear issues that people are overlooking ( in particular: combat, exploration, difficulty design, loot and progression systems) and in some aspects Risen games have improved on those things, but those are the three main reasons on why their later games are far behind.

 

[JDR13]

Early Gothic games had a lot of clear issues that people are overlooking ( in particular: combat, exploration, difficulty design, loot and progression systems) and in some aspects Risen games have improved on those things, but those are the three main reasons on why their later games are far behind.

Not sure what Gothic games you played, but those things weren't issues in the ones I played. Especially exploration, difficulty, and loot and progression systems. Many people would say those aspects were better than even most of the RPGs being released today.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Not sure what Gothic games you played, but those things weren't issues in the ones I played. Especially exploration, difficulty, and loot and progression systems. Many people would say those aspects were better than even most of the RPGs being released today.

Eh, I would disagree. I think I've written enough as to why, previously, but I'll elaborate.
World is very lacking in diverse and interesting locations, dynamic events and side quest/content to discover.
Difficulty...extreme damage sponge based, that puts Division or sometimes even Dragon's Dogma to shame. A single Credo fight in DmC 4 has more complexity and dynamic (due to adaptable AI/speed/variety of movesets and interaction with player abilities) than half the fights in any of their games combined ( compare it to hugging the troll fight)...not even exaggerating here.
Loot...extremely linear in base stat improvements, with zero variation in gameplay practicality, in G2 it also contradicts stat progression system.
Progression...aside from minor secondary skills, too rigid and linear ( with poorly implemented caps, if translated to modern perk system it would consist of only a few basic perks, that you repeat until the end until you completely break damage barriers).

I know this is practically blasphemy in this site, but from my recent recent experience I found it very evidently flawed in how it works related to other systems.

Though there are obvious positives as well...more organic loot placement, learning skills from teachers, melee animation improvements related to character skill, danger in exploration/ ambiance, etc.

But I definitely wouldn't put it on pedestal on these aspects alone.

 

[JDR13]

World is very lacking in diverse and interesting locations, dynamic events and side quest/content to discover.

I'm definitely interested in seeing how many people agree with that. I've played nearly every open-world RPG released in the last 20 years, and the early Gothics easily rank near the top when it comes to exploration and diversity.. especially G2+NotR. They were also quite dynamic for their time. Monsters hunt and kill other monsters not just you, etc.

Difficulty…extreme damage sponge based, that puts Division or sometimes even Dragon's Dogma to shame. A single Credo fight in DmC 4 has more complexity and dynamic (due to adaptable AI/speed/variety of movesets and interaction with player abilities) than half the fights in any of their games combined ( compare it to hugging the troll fight)…not even exaggerating here.

The fights are hard against higher level enemies due to a combination of their damage output, their defense, and how much HP they have. It's not because they're damage sponges. They only seem that way when you're trying to take on an enemy who's defense surpasses your damage output, in which case you're usually not ready to be fighting that particular enemy.

Are far as complexity, you're talking about an action RPG from 2001-02. It's not going to have the same kind of flow as a modern fighting game. That said, I doubt you've ever heard anyone around here claim that's the series strongest point.

Loot…extremely linear in base stat improvements, with zero variation in gameplay practicality, in G2 it also contradicts stat progression system.
Progression…aside from minor secondary skills, too rigid and linear ( with poorly implemented caps, if translated to modern perk system it would consist of only a few basic perks, that you repeat until the end until you completely break damage barriers).

Zero variation in gameplay practicality? I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean.

The loot system in the early Gothics still stand as one of the best in crpgs unless you're the type who doesn't like it because you're not getting an upgrade every 15-20 minutes. The weapons are varied, and it usually makes a significant difference when you finally upgrade that weapon or armor that you've had for hours…unlike the majority of RPGs nowadays that throw a new "Wizard's sparkling sword of the flaming newt + 5" at you every 10 minutes.

I know this is practically blasphemy in this site, but from my recent recent experience I found it very evidently flawed in how it works related to other systems.

Though there are obvious positives as well…more organic loot placement, learning skills from teachers, melee animation improvements related to character skill, danger in exploration/ ambiance, etc.

But I definitely wouldn't put it on pedestal on these aspects alone.

Who's putting them on a pedestal? They happen to be among favorites for many people because they did a lot of things extremely well, and because they still remain unsurpassed in some aspects. I don't see anyone claiming they're perfect though.

 

[johnnysd]

Eh, I would disagree. I think I've written enough as to why, previously, but I'll elaborate.
World is very lacking in diverse and interesting locations, dynamic events and side quest/content to discover.
Difficulty…extreme damage sponge based, that puts Division or sometimes even Dragon's Dogma to shame. A single Credo fight in DmC 4 has more complexity and dynamic (due to adaptable AI/speed/variety of movesets and interaction with player abilities) than half the fights in any of their games combined ( compare it to hugging the troll fight)…not even exaggerating here.
Loot…extremely linear in base stat improvements, with zero variation in gameplay practicality, in G2 it also contradicts stat progression system.
Progression…aside from minor secondary skills, too rigid and linear ( with poorly implemented caps, if translated to modern perk system it would consist of only a few basic perks, that you repeat until the end until you completely break damage barriers).

I know this is practically blasphemy in this site, but from my recent recent experience I found it very evidently flawed in how it works related to other systems.

Though there are obvious positives as well…more organic loot placement, learning skills from teachers, melee animation improvements related to character skill, danger in exploration/ ambiance, etc.

But I definitely wouldn't put it on pedestal on these aspects alone.

Not sure I agree with any of that.

 

[NewDArt]

The first two Gothics are, indeed, fantastic. But they're also old now, and a lot of developers have emulated them in several ways.

If you're young and ignorant of the evolution of game design, and particularly the history of open world RPGs - I can see how you wouldn't be that impressed. Especially if you've grown accustomed to hand-holding (like Witcher senses) and modern AAA production values.

The Gothics aren't very forgiving of mistakes - and they do require an unusual amount of investment on the part of the player. Especially the first one, where you have to adapt to some relatively unique controls - and a very hard learning curve.

Modern games are pushovers and much more about the "comfortable" experience of going from quest to quest - with the spectacle of easy combat in between. Again, Witcher 3 is a very good example of mainstream open world RPGs of today.

But, for their time, they were among the best games - and I'm talking of any platform, and any genre.

 

[BrianOConnell]

What worries me when I see any coverage of ELEX is the combat looks, bar jetpack, very similar to Risen 3. Don't forget folks that Risen 3 was supposed to be a "return to our roots" so any claims of ELEX being more like Gothic like should be taken with a pinch of the usual. I remain hopeful though. Just cautiously so.

 

[NewDArt]

Well, I though Risen 3 was pretty great, so...

If it's Risen 3 only much larger and in a sci-fi setting - I would be more than happy.

If only they could tweak the balance a little.

 

[JDR13]

I'll be pretty disappointed if ELEX is on par with Risen 3. I'm hoping it's significantly better.

I enjoyed Risen 3 when I was playing it, but I have to admit that most of the game was largely forgettable. In fact, I can't even remember what the main plot line was about or the names of any of the NPCs except for Patty.

I do remember that the game was about 20% too long though. The last island felt completely redundant to me, and it was just one big slog. Imo, they should given us the final battle as soon as we reached that island.

 

[NewDArt]

I rushed through the ending, too - but I do that with most games. I tend to focus on completing them once I get to a certain point.

As for the plot, I don't remember either - but then again, I don't remember the plot of any of the other Risens or Gothics.

Except the first one, where I vaguely remember a "Sleeper" that I had to kill underground or something

But ok, Risen 3 wasn't a masterpiece or anything - but I greatly enjoyed it all the same.

 

[Deleted User]

Risen 3 was great, but it was a bit too easy, even on Ultra. And I thought the scale was a bit too small for my tastes.

Still, Risen 2 and 3 are both underrated RPG gems, IMO. They are a change of pace from what a lot of other modern RPG devs are doing.

As for the original Gothics, in most ways they have not been surpassed yet, or even emulated, IMO. Those games were so ahead of the time it was remarkable. I always say that modern RPG developers need to study the first 2 Gothic games, at least, probably the 3rd as well (I'm playing it now and seeing a bunch of interesting ideas already).

 

[NewDArt]

Risen 3 was great, but it was a bit too easy, even on Ultra. And I thought the scale was a bit too small for my tastes.

Still, Risen 2 and 3 are both underrated RPG gems, IMO. They are a change of pace from what a lot of other modern RPG devs are doing.

As for the original Gothics, in most ways they have not been surpassed yet, or even emulated, IMO. Those games were so ahead of the time it was remarkable. I always say that modern RPG developers need to study the first 2 Gothic games, at least, probably the 3rd as well (I'm playing it now and seeing a bunch of interesting ideas already).

Yeah, it was definitely too easy - which is why I mentioned balance.

 

[Deleted User]

Yeah, it was definitely too easy - which is why I mentioned balance.

The combat was very fun, though, and satisfying. But yeah, I thought they had implemented scaling at first, once I saw that you could kill things like Dragon Snappers or Swamp Golems pretty much whenever you first encountered them. I don't think it was scaled, just simply too easy.